Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley

[Spurlock]

Although I think Ndombele's fitness should be questioned (rightly), I just don't understand how anyone can think the approach Mourinho's taken in publicly criticising him is appropriate. Maybe it's me reading too much into it, but there does seem to be quite sinister undertones in the way he talks about the players who aren't performing as he pleases.

He initially spoke to Sky insinuating that he wasn't going to talk directly about the player, then proceeds to moan about him and take digs at him whenever he felt it was appropriate.

Whether you think he's right or not, whether you think there's too many "snowflakes" in football or not, you have to ask yourself whether his approach is effective man-management in the current climate of football.

You must log in or register to see media

Tact isn't Mourinho's strong suit and it shows.

“Affective man management in 2020”

the drama

what’s the current climate of football? I don’t understand this kind of thinking. It’s football ffs...it’s blood, sweat, tears, rivalries, competition, hard physical contact, winners and losers and plenty swearing. It’s not a desk job, it’s Sport.

 

[Treble]

I just said on another thread he probably does. He spends 5 days a week training with the players, he probably tells them what they need to do face to face then maybe in front of the squad, after 4 months when it doesn't get through he goes that bit further.
Remember Luke Shaw? he is now on record as saying Jose was right in his treatment and you can't say his fitness hasn't improved a lot (maybe not his body shape).

I can't see it helping at all Diego. I could understand somewhat IF Jose had bought him but he didn't. He came for Poch and a different brand of football. He doesn't suit Jose's. But worst of all, how many other players is this going to fck off in the dressing room? All the players look as miserable as the manager. Bloody hell getting flashbacks when he was with us. But at least he won a few trophies. I reckon the damage he's doing to team morale is going to take another manager years to sort.

 

[Diego]

I can't see it helping at all Diego. I could understand somewhat IF Jose had bought him but he didn't. He came for Poch and a different brand of football. He doesn't suit Jose's. But worst of all, how many other players is this going to fck off in the dressing room? All the players look as miserable as the manager. Bloody hell getting flashbacks when he was with us. But at least he won a few trophies. I reckon the damage he's doing to team morale is going to take another manager years to sort.

The man is blown out after 30 mins, how can you tell what kind of football he fits

 

[Dier Hard]

"I'm biased, obviously."
Why the **** are we listening to you, then? **** off.

He's out of shape, he's not putting in the effort and he looks fat.
He doesn't look remotely interested and players that joined at the same time or after him have put in far more effort.
Lo Celso and Fernandes have shamed him with their attempts, even when they haven't come off.

If I were to criticise Jose about anything from before/ during/ after the game, it’s that Gedson never featured when he absolutely should have done. Especially when 5 CBs and a DM was far too excessive. Him in midfield alongside Tanguy and Skipp could’ve made the world of difference.

Calling out a guy who isn’t working hard enough and isn’t in a good enough physical condition when they’re earning £200k a week is certainly something I won’t criticise him on.

 

[BrunelGooner]

"I'm biased, obviously."
Why the **** are we listening to you, then? **** off.

He's out of shape, he's not putting in the effort and he looks fat.
He doesn't look remotely interested and players that joined at the same time or after him have put in far more effort.
Lo Celso and Fernandes have shamed him with their attempts, even when they haven't come off.

Did you watch the whole video (including Steve Nicol's view)? What did you think?

You guys watch him far more than I, but normally, when Mourinho talks about a player publicly like that, it generally doesn't end well for him.

Even though Luke Shaw attributed his improvement in fitness to Mourinho, this is also the same guy who said that Fred's Man Utd career was 'over' (now one of Man Utd's best players) and blamed Mkhitaryan for the bad press he received. I can see this going a similar way. Ndombele will outlast him.

As for Ndombele being 'fat', I really don't think he looks fat at all.

You must log in or register to see images

Mourinho wouldn't play him if he was that badly out of shape.....surely.

 

[BrunelGooner]

If I were to criticise Jose about anything from before/ during/ after the game, it’s that Gedson never featured when he absolutely should have done. Especially when 5 CBs and a DM was far too excessive. Him in midfield alongside Tanguy and Skipp could’ve made the world of difference.

Calling out a guy who isn’t working hard enough and isn’t in a good enough physical position when they’re earning £200k a week is certainly something I won’t criticise him on.

If he's not in good enough physical shape, why is he being played? Ndombele doesn't pick himself. And what are the root causes of his lack of fitness? I saw someone mention something about an underlying health condition, which - if it is true (big if I know) - isn't the fault of Ndombele.

 

[Spurf]

I criticised Harry Redknapp for dissin players to the media; Bent I remember "My Sandra could have scored that" Despite the fact I thought Bent was crap I thought it was wrong for Redknapp to air that in public so I have to apply the same to Jose and say it's just bad management to do that. These thing should be done in private because in the end the manager is expressing an opinion and no one should have derogatory opinions about themselves made in public.

Some people may respond to such treatment but it does not make it right.

 

[Treble]

The man is blown out after 30 mins, how can you tell what kind of football he fits

So what's the manager doing about it except crying in front of the cameras?

Seems to me like he can't motivate his players any other way.

I expect Ndombele to be on the pies after listening to Jose tearing into him tonight

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Did you watch the whole video (including Steve Nicol's view)? What did you think?

You guys watch him far more than I, but normally, when Mourinho talks about a player publicly like that, it generally doesn't end well for him.

Even though Luke Shaw attributed his improvement in fitness to Mourinho, this is also the same guy who said that Fred's Man Utd career was 'over' (now one of Man Utd's best players) and blamed Mkhitaryan for the bad press he received. I can see this going a similar way. Ndombele will outlast him.

As for Ndombele being 'fat', I really don't think he looks fat at all.

You must log in or register to see images

Mourinho wouldn't play him if he was that badly out of shape.....surely.

Nicol's a Scouser. He's legally required to talk a load of ****.

Ndombele looks knackered after about 10 minutes of any game.
His fitness levels aren't just short of what's required, they're an utter embarrassment.
Lamela's not even fit enough to train with the squad due to his injuries and he's miles ahead of him.
He's not putting in the effort and he hasn't since he's joined.

 

[BrunelGooner]

Ndombele looks knackered after about 10 minutes of any game.

Why is he being played, then? He shouldn't be starting for you if that's the case.

Who's fault is that?

 

[Spurf]

Nicol's a Scouser. He's legally required to talk a load of ****.

Ndombele looks knackered after about 10 minutes of any game.
His fitness levels aren't just short of what's required, they're an utter embarrassment.
Lamela's not even fit enough to train with the squad due to his injuries and he's miles ahead of him.
He's not putting in the effort and he hasn't since he's joined.

It's the managers job to see that his players are fit if they are not fit then the manager is not doing his job.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

It's the managers job to see that his players are fit if they are not fit then the manager is not doing his job.

And what do you do if they never get fit?
We've got a small, unbalanced squad and a lot of games. If he wasn't picking him, then there would be a lot of questions asked.
He got the tactics and system wrong at the start, but Ndombele isn't trying and didn't under Pochettino, either. That's on him.

 

[Spurf]

And what do you do if they never get fit?
We've got a small, unbalanced squad and a lot of games. If he wasn't picking him, then there would be a lot of questions asked.
He got the tactics and system wrong at the start, but Ndombele isn't trying and didn't under Pochettino, either. That's on him.[/QUOTE}.

It's very simple you investigate why. Is it diet is psychological, is it general fitness. You establish the condition find the cause and put in place a remedy. If you can't do that because of some chronic condition then you question the medical staff and the directors as to why this was not picked up during the transfer. Whatever it is the solution does not lay in public humilation

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

t's very simple you investigate why. Is it diet is psychological, is it general fitness. You establish the condition find the cause and put in place a remedy. If you can't do that because of some chronic condition then you question the medical staff and the directors as to why this was not picked up during the transfer. Whatever it is the solution does not lay in public humilation.

And what if it's not physical or psychological, but the player just being a lazy **** who can't be bothered?

 

[Diego]

It's the managers job to see that his players are fit if they are not fit then the manager is not doing his job.

And how does he do that, he calls him in the office and has a word (probably a few times), then he calls him out in front of the squad (probably a few times), as a final resort he calls him out in public and say's "now prove me wrong".

 

[Spurlock]

I can't see it helping at all Diego. I could understand somewhat IF Jose had bought him but he didn't. He came for Poch and a different brand of football. He doesn't suit Jose's. But worst of all, how many other players is this going to fck off in the dressing room? All the players look as miserable as the manager. Bloody hell getting flashbacks when he was with us. But at least he won a few trophies. I reckon the damage he's doing to team morale is going to take another manager years to sort.

from what I hear if you manage a club that plays weekend and midweek most weeks then the days in between are usually spent doing recouperation exercises. That’s why pre seasons are very important...that’s where you try the hard training sessions...drilling it into their heads without fear of burnout for any upcoming games.


And


You’re that player who would sulk if the gaffer had a pop at you...not playing next week kind of attitude...doesn’t mean if I happened to be next to you as your teammate i’d feel for you, tbh
id probably think you’re a ****er who deserves a wake up call and I’m sick of carrying you

 

[Treble]

If he's not in good enough physical shape, why is he being played? Ndombele doesn't pick himself. And what are the root causes of his lack of fitness? I saw someone mention something about an underlying health condition, which - if it is true (big if I know) - isn't the fault of Ndombele.

I'm looking at it overall...
You've just gone through a protracted saga where your best midfielder wanted a transfer out to anywhere.., you got your two best attacking players out injured,... you got your other decent forward in **** form and looking miserable as fck on the pitch and in front of the cameras... you got another midfielder attacking his own fans...

...and then on top of that Jose laying in to Ndombele in public! How the hell is that going to help!

 

[Dier Hard]

If he's not in good enough physical shape, why is he being played? Ndombele doesn't pick himself. And what are the root causes of his lack of fitness? I saw someone mention something about an underlying health condition, which - if it is true (big if I know) - isn't the fault of Ndombele.

Because we’ve got injuries left, right and centre and it shouldn’t be too much of an ask to get a £55m, £200k a week player to put some graft in.

Root cause of lack of fitness is he’s likely not looking after himself well enough. No one else in the squad seems to be having this actual issue, you can’t help injuries but an actual lack of fitness is just so unprofessional.

 

[Spurf]

Because we’ve got injuries left, right and centre and it shouldn’t be too much of an ask to get a £55m, £200k a week player to put some graft in.

Root cause of lack of fitness is he’s likely not looking after himself well enough. No one else in the squad seems to having this actual issue, you can’t help injuries but an actual lack of fitness is just so unprofessional.

If it was that simple George Best would still be alive.

 

[Treble]

from what I hear if you manage a club that plays weekend and midweek most weeks then the days in between are usually spent doing recouperation exercises. That’s why pre seasons are very important...that’s where you try the hard training sessions...drilling it into their heads without fear of burnout for any upcoming games.


And


You’re that player who would sulk if the gaffer had a pop at you...not playing next week kind of attitude...doesn’t mean if I happened to be next to you as your teammate i’d feel for you, tbh
id probably think you’re a ****er who deserves a wake up call and I’m sick of carrying you

You got no idea he's doing any of those things though. Maybe he's trying his best but he's inexperienced and doesn't quite know what the manager wants. Maybe there are other players that feel the same? The performance against Norwich and the game against Leipzig suggests that far more tbh.