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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    If that snippet sums him up, what does it say about Winks? Or Dier? Both of them are in that clip failing to deal with Neto, and yet nobody's using the clip to beat them over the head...and you don't think that's strange?

    Ndombele's lack of starts isn't because he did a cack-handed attempt at stopping Neto in one game, it's because his match fitness is questionable, and that's a very different accusation to make: one means you're lazy, the other means you're...unfit, actually - and it's not a coincidence that his fitness has been an issue ever since the international break where he was called into the France team in spite having a (IIRC) groin strain just before the international break

    Also, I have to ask one thing: "strolls"? Have you actually watched the clip you felt the urge to post to this board twice today? At the very start of the clip you can see lamela standing off without even bothering to chase the ball while Lo Celso actually stops in his tracks for a half second and can be seen actually strolling while Ndombele, Winks and Dier all conspire to fail to track Neto's run, but none of them are being criticised...which once again begs the questions, don't you think that's strange?

    Do you really not see what's going on with this clip? It's people seizing on a context-free clip that fits the Narrative they believe, which sounds uncannily like the various people whose Narratives get torn to pieces in the following video



    And that's the point we've reached in just 100 days of Steptonho: being comparable with climate change deniers and anti vaxxers and needing to seize on the smallest morsel possible to support that belief even though that morsel is a mere crumb of a thing known as "context"
     
    #241
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  2. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I think there's a difference though in rushing players back from injury or persisting with those in poor form than actual physical conditioning of a professional footballer.

    We've all criticised Dele and Dier's form this season and prior, along with Jose's choice in playing them (especially the latter) but for me it's a different level of criticism to someone who is seemingly not getting themselves into shape or putting in the work.

    Ndombele's been back in training and playing for 5 or so weeks now, it's not as if he's being rushed back into the side, yet still he struggles to seemingly perform for longer than 45 minutes. Talent wise we know he has it but his application in matches is unacceptable in my opinion, I feel disrespected that a player of his quality isn't giving his all. You can lack the fitness and still try but it doesn't feel like he's doing that.
     
    #242
  3. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    And that's the thing about there being no set timeframe for a player to go from unfit to fit: being back in training for five weeks won't miraculously make him capable of playing 90 minutes at full pelt, after all Dier's been in training since October but has only started to look match fit in the last couple of weeks while Danny Rose has been in training since late 2017 yet still isn't looking match fit

    ...okay, the second one was a bad example

    This is the issue with trying to brute force somebody back to match fitness: it works in Football Manager, as the only way to get a player fully match-fit is to give them a few 60+ minute appearances when they come back from injury, but the fact that applies just as much to 17 year old prospects being given a run-out in pre-season as it does a 32 year old coming back from a three month layoff demonstrates the difference between a game and reality

    Am I disappointed that Ndombele's fitness has been a mess for the best part of half of the season at this point? Yes, but the thing is that I'm not holding him solely responsible based on a single context-free video that doesn't stack up compared to supercuts of his other performances this season
     
    #243
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  4. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Who decided to buy him?
     
    #244
  5. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    I don't even expect 90 minutes at full pelt but a solid 45-60 where he isn't looking like he's come straight from the pub shouldn't be too much of an ask. He's only seemingly looked comfortable when coming on for the final 25 minutes or so of a game, where others are starting tire. He was poor in his start against Chelsea and he was poor against Burnley.

    Five full weeks of training coupled with minutes in matches should be enough for a player to look semi-respectably fit by now.

    He's been praised it to the hilt when he's showcased his talent but his fitness has been an issue all season, it was overlooked in the first few months as he's a new player and adapting issues are completely understandable but a general lack of fitness that doesn't seem to be improving one iota is why he's now being called out for it.
     
    #245
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  6. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what's wrong with him and to a large extent, its irrelevant at this point in time. Theoretically, we could look at whether his behaviour amounts to a fundamental breach of his contract (it doesn't) and look to sack him..but what would be the point in that? We'd simply be writing off an enormous amount of money.

    We need to get results now and in the longer term, we need to fix him, only if it's enough not to lose £56m that we won't get back from anywhere else. So, he's got to be worked on. Getting angry doesn't solve anything.

    Whether it's physical or mental or a combination of both, he shouldn't be starting games for us...and definitely not in a two in midfield. That's just not helping him, his team mates, the club or Mourinho's blood pressure. Either put him on the bench and work with him to increase his fitness/desire to be involved or drop him and work on him out of the public gaze. It's all there is.

    It's an absolute disaster given that we've scarcely got enough for a full bench right now but given that we're having to sub Lamela on/off during games, having a second player who needs the same treatment means that we're flogging the likes of Bergwijn into the ground and running out of subs for our scarce attacking players.
     
    #246
  7. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Again, back in January it looked as if Eric Dier couldn't play more than 45 minutes without blowing chunks all over the pitch, and he'd not only been in training since October but regularly playing matches in the interim

    The reason it's being called out is the same reason a bunch of fans were taking to Twitter the other night saying "Well that'll shut people up about Parrott" - it's because we don't have a coach in the dugout, we've got Piers Moron, and he needs to find a different Meghan Markle every week ago to get the mob against so he doesn't have to say "Whoops, I ****ed up my team selection again"

    This week it's Ndombele, last week it was Parrott, odds are that Gedson will be getting it in the neck next week
     
    #247
  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Pass map time

    please log in to view this image


    Looks like a mirror image of the Wolves game, with so much of our passing down the left flank while against Wolves there were numerous slugs on the right - although the key difference is that Dele is playing deeper than Bergwijn and Lamela, which is basically how he should be playing, rather than dropping deeper than half of our team like he was against Wolves

    That being said, there's some odd passing choices here: Hugo never seems to pass to Sanchez or Dier, Sanchez never seems to pass to Skipp, while Dier and Alderweireld never seem to pass to Ndombele. Similarly, Lamela is playing so centrally that he's reducing our number of passing options on the right, and considering that Lucas routinely does this it has to be a tactical choice - but the thing is, surely Bergwijn cutting inside is the better choice?
     
    #248
  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I quite like these, but they're often muddled if there are any early substitutions or someone switches wings.
    Lo Celso and Moura being introduced at half-time changed the game and also our shape, yet they're not represented.
    Quite difficult to take much from it in this case, unfortunately.
     
    #249
  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    He made less sprints than Lloris! <laugh>
     
    #250
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  11. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy
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    He’s playing in the wrong formation that’s why

    some formations actually stop you from running
     
    #251
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    One thing that's being brought up is how he never seemed to make himself available for a pass from the defence, as at no point did he ever receive a single pass from any of Sanchez, Dier or Alderweireld

    ...the problem with this Narrative is that a cursory look at the pass map shows that Skipp never received a single pass from Sanchez or Alderweireld either, but because there isn't a Narrative of him being "lazy" nobody's going to mention that, just like nobody mentions Winks or Dier doing a cack handed job of defending in that ten-second video that was doing the rounds on Twitter last week (and on here yesterday...)

    There is one thing that does have to be pointed out, though: remember when Harry Winks came back into the side after his second ankle injury and there was a period of a few months where if an opponent got near him when he had the ball he'd get rid of it ASAP to avoid the risk of getting tackled? I have to ask, because Ndombele's had hamstring and groin injuries this season, and now he's back in the team he's reluctant to break into a full sprint...you know, sort of like how I'm reluctant to run for a bus or train at the moment due to having a hamstring the size of a tennis ball back in December as a result of the cataclysmic event in my lower back and hip area

    But as always, pundits ignore context as they want to write a Narrative - and the people who happily parrot the Narrative have even less concern for context
     
    #252
  13. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    If Ndombele isn't mentally prepared to run, then he shouldn't be playing.
    He should continue to work with our medical staff, speak to a sports psychologist and get back to doing it in training.
    He made less sprints than our goalkeeper. That's not acceptable and it helps nobody.
     
    #253
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    And that's the point: if he's not mentally prepared, we shouldn't be throwing him into the team

    Our constant attempts to brute force players back to match fitness has long been an issue, yet when has it ever worked?
     
    #254
  15. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Is your body going to pieces,Human?
     
    #255
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    I probably mentioned this at the time, but here's what happened to me back in December
    * My right hip shifting out of alignment and was a good couple of inches higher than the left one
    * My right hamstring was stretched to breaking point by my hip getting dislodged
    * My spine decided to take a vacation in the sciatic nerve
    * I lost all feeling down the outside of my right leg due to the sciatic nerve damage
    * My right calf entered a permanent state of cramp

    This wasn't one after the other, this was all at the same time - all because I didn't have central heating that week as my boiler was being replaced, so I went from having a sore back on Monday/Tuesday to looking like something out of Dead Space by Wednesday morning
     
    #256
  17. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Best wishes,mate!
     
    #257
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Most of it was fixed after a few trips to the osteopath (and some particularly grueling stretching exercises) although my hamstring really doesn't like days where it's cold and damp...which there have been a lot of lately
     
    #258
  19. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    I'm currently having to weigh when to have further surgery on my spine (disc replacement in my neck), elbows (decompression of the nerves on both elbows!) and knees (replacement of both, naturally). I'm held together by multiple pain killers, Naproxen and Lidl's Woodgate Cider - 7.4% abv (not AVB, thankfully).

    If there's anyone left alive by next hospital appointment in mid-April, I'll know which surgery comes first. My money's on my neck but if there's a neurosurgeon out there who knows better, please can he/she come forward?

    Just remember, it'll get worse before you die...so try to enjoy it.
     
    #259
  20. Alfie Conn

    Alfie Conn Well-Known Member

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    I recommend Mr Casey at the national neurological hospital , he couldn't help me but was the only person who told me the facts and probably outcome should they operate on my spine
    Good luck Brian
     
    #260

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