Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
I myself could easily be a Brexiteer however I am not because I believe I am realistic about our country surviving without being a part of the EU. Even now theee doesn’t appear to be any solutions going forward to combat the issues
Maybe we will all get to policies or rather unrealistic promises that will be broken.

we are bound to see a rise in the Brexit party no doubt at all but to me they have nothing in terms of sorting out the mess.

Nige would be ****ed if he had to deal with the consequences of promises and actually having to deal with parliamentary process, his rhetoric has always been shout from the sidelines. Even if he managed to get in as part of a minority government arrangement he’d just blame the conservatives when things go tits up, the mans a total fraud and charlatan who is seemingly happy enough making a bucket of cash from this whole debacle.
 
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here is the problem, it seems like important things like facts, figures and policies don’t matter, must be so easy being a Tory or Brexit party, just throw out a load of phrases, some of which you can’t even keep your promises with, and that will satisfy their target audience. Question anything in detail and a zzzzzzz response will do.
zzzzzzzz
lets see on the 12th.
 
Nige would be ****ed if he had to deal with the consequences of promises and actually having to deal with parliamentary process, his rhetoric has always been shout from the sidelines.
so he will be just like the SNationalistP and Labour then.
 
5 Reasons why Labour can win the election:

Scrutiny: The Tories will realize to their cost that you can't fill the pages of a manifesto with slogans like 'Let's get it done' and 'The will of the people' - it's not enough. This election is not just about Brexit - that could be dried and dusted in 6 months. It is about running the country for the next 5 years - and the flip side of 'getting it done' is that this Tory cabinet is the most right wing cabinet ever to emerge in the UK - the question is not about Brexit, but rather whether you want Johnson to have a majority for 5 years - to deregulate, and turn Britain into a bargain basement society.

Lib Dems: For even the staunchest remainer it must be clear that the idea of scrapping Article 50 is not on - reversing the effects of one referendum can only be done by another one - Labour has realized this, albeit a bit late in the day. Having said that they are in a strong position, but most of their target seats are tory held ones.

Tactical voting: I do not have a vote in the UK. but if I did I would always vote for the candidate best placed to defeat the standing Tory. If even 30% of remainers vote tactically then that would be enough. Opinion polls don't mention this factor. But - there are now more remainers than brexiteers in the UK.

Campaigning in December: We know that whatever the opinion polls say at the beginning of a campaign, Labour will reduce the gap during the campaign itself - quite simply because they have 5 times as many members canvassing on the streets in the marginals. They are also younger - I doubt that many of the Tories (average age 70) want to go campaigning at this time of the year (not good for the joints and bones).

Lastly: People don't want an election in December - and unwanted elections tend to go against whoever called them. Polls have shown that a second referendum had much more support than there was for a general election. In fact the majority wanted to see Johnson press ahead with his deal rather than go to the polls.

I think you are being pretty deluded there Cologne.
 
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5 Reasons why Labour can win the election:

Scrutiny: The Tories will realize to their cost that you can't fill the pages of a manifesto with slogans like 'Let's get it done' and 'The will of the people' - it's not enough. This election is not just about Brexit - that could be dried and dusted in 6 months. It is about running the country for the next 5 years - and the flip side of 'getting it done' is that this Tory cabinet is the most right wing cabinet ever to emerge in the UK - the question is not about Brexit, but rather whether you want Johnson to have a majority for 5 years - to deregulate, and turn Britain into a bargain basement society.

Lib Dems: For even the staunchest remainer it must be clear that the idea of scrapping Article 50 is not on - reversing the effects of one referendum can only be done by another one - Labour has realized this, albeit a bit late in the day. Having said that they are in a strong position, but most of their target seats are tory held ones.

Tactical voting: I do not have a vote in the UK. but if I did I would always vote for the candidate best placed to defeat the standing Tory. If even 30% of remainers vote tactically then that would be enough. Opinion polls don't mention this factor. But - there are now more remainers than brexiteers in the UK.

Campaigning in December: We know that whatever the opinion polls say at the beginning of a campaign, Labour will reduce the gap during the campaign itself - quite simply because they have 5 times as many members canvassing on the streets in the marginals. They are also younger - I doubt that many of the Tories (average age 70) want to go campaigning at this time of the year (not good for the joints and bones).

Lastly: People don't want an election in December - and unwanted elections tend to go against whoever called them. Polls have shown that a second referendum had much more support than there was for a general election. In fact the majority wanted to see Johnson press ahead with his deal rather than go to the polls.
And that is just about the biggest pile of ****e I have ever read on this thread
 
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I myself could easily be a Brexiteer however I am not because I believe I am realistic about our country surviving without being a part of the EU. Even now theee doesn’t appear to be any solutions going forward to combat the issues
Maybe we will all get to policies or rather unrealistic promises that will be broken.

we are bound to see a rise in the Brexit party no doubt at all but to me they have nothing in terms of sorting out the mess.

The only reason to be pessimistic is if we thought the EU would walk away and refuse to trade with us. It won't. We're a big customer and the Eurozone needs all the help it can get at the moment. The big power, Germany, is in recession. We'll trade and find our equilibrium with the EU. And we'll be more outlooking when it comes to trading with the rest of the world, which is the growing area. And let's look at trading with countries like Vietnam that need help.We can replicate or improve on what the EU has given them, and tailor it to our specific needs.

As to the Brexit Party, I think they're in a difficult position. They realistically won't want to stand against Tories and lose the Boris Johnson deal. I think there'll be some arrangement with the Tories, and expect the Tories to have by far the upper hand
 
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I think you are being pretty deluded there Cologne.
I am certainly being optimistic Staines ! Though the fact remains that the Tories will be concentrating on a Brexit election, whereas Labour will be trying to broaden the debate and their success will depend on how well they do this. It is not a Brexit election where a party should be allowed to rule Britain for 5 years based on this alone - the people deserve more than that. People should realize that giving the Tories a majority means that Brexit will probably be dried and dusted in 3 months - but the flip side is that they would be living under the most right wing Tory administration ever for the remaining 4 and a half plus years. I hope that this is in people's minds when they go to the polls. It's also not just optimism to suggest that Labour will start doing better once the election campaign itself begins - this has happened at the last 2. The positive side of this is that they will now be forced to write down their Brexit policy in black and white - which involves getting off the fence. Potentially they have the majority on their side - the Tory choice of Boris's deal or a hard Brexit does not have a majority in the country - neither does the Lib/Dem policy of withdrawing Article 50 completely - both are extreme positions, whereas Labour is sitting in the middle ie. let the people decide. The only disadvantage to Labour's position is that it drags the Brexit process out longer - but it is worth going the extra mile on this.
 
The only reason to be pessimistic is if we thought the EU would walk away and refuse to trade with us. It won't. We're a big customer and the Eurozone needs all the help it can get at the moment. The big power, Germany, is in recession. We'll trade and find our equilibrium with the EU. And we'll be more outlooking when it comes to trading with the rest of the world, which is the growing area. And let's look at trading with countries like Vietnam that need help.We can replicate or improve on what the EU has given them, and tailor it to our specific needs.

As to the Brexit Party, I think they're in a difficult position. They realistically won't want to stand against Tories and lose the Boris Johnson deal. I think there'll be some arrangement with the Tories, and expect the Tories to have by far the upper hand
The EU is not going to refuse to trade with you Goldie, it will just be under different conditions. If you want to enjoy completely free trade, as now, it would be subject to an equally free movement of people. Say to them 'we want your money but we don't want you' and it isn't going to work. Quite apart from what the EU actually agrees on this European customers will give preference to European goods - if the same product as the UK. is offering is also being offered by another EU country then they will choose the latter.
 
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I am certainly being optimistic Staines ! Though the fact remains that the Tories will be concentrating on a Brexit election, whereas Labour will be trying to broaden the debate and their success will depend on how well they do this. It is not a Brexit election where a party should be allowed to rule Britain for 5 years based on this alone - the people deserve more than that. People should realize that giving the Tories a majority means that Brexit will probably be dried and dusted in 3 months - but the flip side is that they would be living under the most right wing Tory administration ever for the remaining 4 and a half plus years. I hope that this is in people's minds when they go to the polls. It's also not just optimism to suggest that Labour will start doing better once the election campaign itself begins - this has happened at the last 2. The positive side of this is that they will now be forced to write down their Brexit policy in black and white - which involves getting off the fence. Potentially they have the majority on their side - the Tory choice of Boris's deal or a hard Brexit does not have a majority in the country - neither does the Lib/Dem policy of withdrawing Article 50 completely - both are extreme positions, whereas Labour is sitting in the middle ie. let the people decide. The only disadvantage to Labour's position is that it drags the Brexit process out longer - but it is worth going the extra mile on this.

I wish I could share you’re optimism C. Instead I see another 5 years of Tory rule :(

Unless of course we have a revolution in the meantime ;)
 
The EU is not going to refuse to trade with you Goldie, it will just be under different conditions. If you want to enjoy completely free trade, as now, it would be subject to an equally free movement of people. Say to them 'we want your money but we don't want you' and it isn't going to work. Quite apart from what the EU actually agrees on this European customers will give preference to European goods - if the same product as the UK. is offering is also being offered by another EU country then they will choose the latter.

There will be immigration from the EU to the UK, Cologne, just not of right. If the jobs are here to be filled, fine. I just don't believe that your average EU shopper wanting a nice piece of Stilton will say, ah, no, I'll settle for Danish blue!
 
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There will be immigration from the EU to the UK, Cologne, just not of right. If the jobs are here to be filled, fine. I just don't believe that your average EU shopper wanting a nice piece of Stilton will say, ah, no, I'll settle for Danish blue!
According to an Ipsos mori survey taken in 16 different countries and based on online surveys of adults under 65 there was a tendency which suggests an unofficial boycott of British products after Brexit. The Italians were the most inclined to this at 43% from the sample, followed by the Spanish 37% and the Germans 33%. This is not to say that it is a conscious boycott just that if the same product is on offer from another EU country they will take it. British car exporters are noticing this trend already. As for visitors - how are you going to control those so called 'undesirables' coming in without also disadvantaging the millions of EU tourists who visit London every year ? Actually about 20 million people who come, spend their money, and then go - are they still going to come to a place which does not make them feel welcome ? No - they will choose Paris or somewhere else for their long weekend. Then there is the case of all those Americans, Japanese etc. who can come to London as part of a general European trip and just hop from one to the other. The consequences of Brexit could be catastrophic for London's tourist industry. As for the millions which the UK currently makes from language course tourism you can forget it - most of the language schools are already relocating to Ireland or Malta.
 
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I just wonder how many countries will go the way of Greece (if the UK does exit as voted for in 2016) as I am aware that Italy and Spain as mentioned above have financial problems and Germany are in recession..