Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

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You saw that stats that Frome posted, Ubes. It was only of concern to a tiny part of the electorate - the far right UKIP supporters that Cameron thought he needed to get on board to win an election.

It was in the manifesto, Strolls. What more can I say?

The Nambies will have Revoke Article 50 in theirs for the next GE. If we’re not out by then there’s a clear democratic choice to abort the whole thing.

If the Nambies get a majority with the usual 40% of the vote of a 60% turnout, presumably the Europhiles will claim victory on the will of 24% of the electorate?

 

[Stroller]

It was in the manifesto, Strolls. What more can I say?

The Nambies will have Revoke Article 50 in theirs for the next GE. If we’re not out by then there’s a clear democratic choice to abort the whole thing.

If the Nambies get a majority with the usual 40% of the vote of a 60% turnout, presumably the Europhiles will claim victory on the will of 24% of the electorate?

If you're advocating PR, I'm all for it.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

If you're advocating PR, I'm all for it.

The Referendum was effectively PR, Strollyplops.

 

[Stroller]

The Referendum was effectively PR, Strollyplops.

Hardly. Where's the representation of the 48%?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Hardly. Where's the representation of the 48%?

Binary question.

 

[Stroller]

Binary question.

So not PR at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Oh they do like to be beside the seaside...

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Corbyn-Labour are also opposing Harriet Harperson as Speaker. With Jezza now even less popular than Michael Foot and Lib Dems moving into second place, there's surely going to be a blood letting in Labour before long

 

[Uber_Hoop]

So not PR at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

Time for you to say clickety-clackety etc.

A 52/48 exit would be the Norway option.

 

[DT’s Socks]

It’s nearly over a Deal is coming ?
I fully expect a ramp up of Euro haters

 

[Uber_Hoop]

So not PR at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

Best estimates of the 2016 EU Referendum by constituency was Leave 406, Remain 242 (although the sum falls short by 2 of the total of 650 constituencies).

That would’ve been a majority in favour of Leave over just over 62%. The Referendum was PR in that the official result was much narrower at 52%.

I’ve been drinking again. I’m also seeing creatures dancing on my walls.

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

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You saw that stats that Frome posted, Ubes. It was only of concern to a tiny part of the electorate - the far right UKIP supporters that Cameron thought he needed to get on board to win an election.

Stroller why this obsession with calling everybody who voted leave or voted for UKIP “far right”, 5 of my grandchildren are Muslim, my son in law is a Turkish muslim, some of my best friends are Black, Indian, Polish etc, I AM NOT FAR RIGHT, I AM NOT A RACIST, I AM NOT A EDL, NATIONAL FRONT MEMBER !!!!!
I am just a normal person that voted to leave a corrupt Organization, a normal person that does not want a new European army, a normal person who understands what the Lisbon 2020 treaty means, JUST A NORMAL PERSON.
PLEASE STOP ASSUMING IM FAR RIGHT BECAUSE I VOTE A CERTAIN WAY.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Stroller why this obsession with calling everybody who voted leave or voted for UKIP “far right”, 5 of my grandchildren are Muslim, my son in law is a Turkish muslim, some of my best friends are Black, Indian, Polish etc, I AM NOT FAR RIGHT, I AM NOT A RACIST, I AM NOT A EDL, NATIONAL FRONT MEMBER !!!!!
I am just a normal person that voted to leave a corrupt Organization, a normal person that does not want a new European army, a normal person who understands what the Lisbon 2020 treaty means, JUST A NORMAL PERSON.
PLEASE STOP ASSUMING IM FAR RIGHT BECAUSE I VOTE A CERTAIN WAY.

UKIP are/were pretty far to the right.

Nice normal post though.

 

[bobmid]

Stroller why this obsession with calling everybody who voted leave or voted for UKIP “far right”, 5 of my grandchildren are Muslim, my son in law is a Turkish muslim, some of my best friends are Black, Indian, Polish etc, I AM NOT FAR RIGHT, I AM NOT A RACIST, I AM NOT A EDL, NATIONAL FRONT MEMBER !!!!!
I am just a normal person that voted to leave a corrupt Organization, a normal person that does not want a new European army, a normal person who understands what the Lisbon 2020 treaty means, JUST A NORMAL PERSON.
PLEASE STOP ASSUMING IM FAR RIGHT BECAUSE I VOTE A CERTAIN WAY.

The Lisbon treaty came into effect in 2009 turkish. I totally get what you're saying in you're other points though. It, like most things comes down to opinions. I personally dont have any problems or concerns about being a member of the EU. According to our own Government, Experts (so called), ardent brexiteers etc I do have concerns about not being a member. As I've said before, this referendum was carried out the wrong way. Knowledge is power, we should have had the information at hand that we know now and then it should have been put to a vote.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

The Lisbon treaty came into effect in 2009 turkish. I totally get what you're saying in you're other points though. It, like most things comes down to opinions. I personally dont have any problems or concerns about being a member of the EU. According to our own Government, Experts (so called), ardent brexiteers etc I do have concerns about not being a member. As I've said before, this referendum was carried out the wrong way. Knowledge is power, we should have had the information at hand that we know now and then it should have been put to a vote.

Serious question, Bob, but what information?

Should they have told us the Irish border would be an issue?

Should they have told us that a whole bunch of people would want to stay in the customs union, but some would want to leave that?

Should they have told us that some would want Leave to remove the free movement of EU people’s whereas some wouldn’t?

Should they have told us the EU would effectively offer only one pretty intransigent position, take it or leave it, and that the alternative was No Deal and WTO rules?

You know what? I’d have had no problem with this information coming out prior to the Referendum, but I reckon the British people probably would’ve still gone for Leave, perhaps more so.

We’ll never know, of course, but the Brits don’t much care for being bullied. Knowing the EU position might just have further encouraged the collective traditional V-sign, stick it up your Junckers mentality that has served us so well throughout history.

We’ll never know, but I like to think us Brits don’t back down just because something appears ‘too difficult’.

Then again, maybe that’s exactly what we do these days.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Serious question, Bob, but what information?

Should they have told us the Irish border would be an issue?

Should they have told us that a whole bunch of people would want to stay in the customs union, but some would want to leave that?

Should they have told us that some would want Leave to remove the free movement of EU people’s whereas some wouldn’t?

Should they have told us the EU would effectively offer only one pretty intransigent position, take it or leave it, and that the alternative was No Deal and WTO rules?

You know what? I’d have had no problem with this information coming out prior to the Referendum, but I reckon the British people probably would’ve still gone for Leave, perhaps more so.

We’ll never know, of course, but the Brits don’t much care for being bullied. Knowing the EU position might just have further encouraged the collective traditional V-sign, stick it up your Junckers mentality that has served us so well throughout history.

We’ll never know, but I like to think us Brits don’t back down just because something appears ‘too difficult’.

Then again, maybe that’s exactly what we do these days.

Easy to say with hindsight but we could and should have agreed a deal (as we did) and put that to a referendum if we were going to have one at all. Don’t think there’s a chance in hell Leave would’ve won under those circumstances though rather than us plebs being presented every Leave option as the one we’d be going for.

 

[bobmid]

Serious question, Bob, but what information?

Should they have told us the Irish border would be an issue?

Should they have told us that a whole bunch of people would want to stay in the customs union, but some would want to leave that?

Should they have told us that some would want Leave to remove the free movement of EU people’s whereas some wouldn’t?

Should they have told us the EU would effectively offer only one pretty intransigent position, take it or leave it, and that the alternative was No Deal and WTO rules?

You know what? I’d have had no problem with this information coming out prior to the Referendum, but I reckon the British people probably would’ve still gone for Leave, perhaps more so.

We’ll never know, of course, but the Brits don’t much care for being bullied. Knowing the EU position might just have further encouraged the collective traditional V-sign, stick it up your Junckers mentality that has served us so well throughout history.

We’ll never know, but I like to think us Brits don’t back down just because something appears ‘too difficult’.

Then again, maybe that’s exactly what we do these days.

Erm yes of course the Irish border should have been discussed. Possible and probable outcomes of agreeing to leave with a deal or no deal. I think that would have been very important. As fo the british people not liking being bullied? Who does enjoy being bullied? I dont just think its solely us Brits. I for one havent seen any form of Bullying towards our country. Infact I would go as far as saying that statements like that are part of the problem. History shows that if anything, we have been the country who does the bullying regarding the British Empire. This mentality is dangerous. We are in this mess because we did it to ourselves. A vote was cast and leave narrowly won bu win they did. Parliment couldn't then agree a strategy for leaving despite a deal being agreed with the 27. We go back and forth and as Col says, in circles again and again. This is not the EUs fault its ours. But our arrogance states that we have to blame somebody else for our **** ups. It's the easiest thing to do so basically I think your post is absolute bollocks mate (in the nicest possible way)
Would you vote in an election if no parties had manifestos?

 

[Sooperhoop]

Stroller why this obsession with calling everybody who voted leave or voted for UKIP “far right”, 5 of my grandchildren are Muslim, my son in law is a Turkish muslim, some of my best friends are Black, Indian, Polish etc, I AM NOT FAR RIGHT, I AM NOT A RACIST, I AM NOT A EDL, NATIONAL FRONT MEMBER !!!!!
I am just a normal person that voted to leave a corrupt Organization, a normal person that does not want a new European army, a normal person who understands what the Lisbon 2020 treaty means, JUST A NORMAL PERSON.
PLEASE STOP ASSUMING IM FAR RIGHT BECAUSE I VOTE A CERTAIN WAY.

It's because anyone who isn't far left is either a Tory, far right or Genghis Khan in their twilight world...

 

[bobmid]

It's because anyone who isn't far left is either a Tory, far right or Genghis Khan in their twilight world...

Again this is part of the problem and has been since I can remember. There is no central ground.

 

[Sooperhoop]

Again this is part of the problem and has been since I can remember. There is no central ground.

Absolutely, and until a credible centre-ground party breaks this cycle it will continue to deny the majority of 'normal' voters a government that isn't pulled by the extremer elements of their party. With the LibDems coming out for revoking Brexit altogether that opportunity has been lost imo.

I'm becoming more inclined to agreeing that PR would be a better way forward in that the inevitable coalitions would be built on reining in the more extreme elements of Lab/Con and finding more sensible middle ground. Perhaps if the LibDems win enough seats in the next election to hold the balance of power they will insist on PR being introduced as the guarantee for their support, unfortunately their stance on Brexit may be given higher priority...

 

[QPR Oslo]

Erm yes of course the Irish border should have been discussed. Possible and probable outcomes of agreeing to leave with a deal or no deal. I think that would have been very important. As fo the british people not liking being bullied? Who does enjoy being bullied? I dont just think its solely us Brits. I for one havent seen any form of Bullying towards our country. Infact I would go as far as saying that statements like that are part of the problem. History shows that if anything, we have been the country who does the bullying regarding the British Empire. This mentality is dangerous. We are in this mess because we did it to ourselves. A vote was cast and leave narrowly won bu win they did. Parliment couldn't then agree a strategy for leaving despite a deal being agreed with the 27. We go back and forth and as Col says, in circles again and again. This is not the EUs fault its ours. But our arrogance states that we have to blame somebody else for our **** ups. It's the easiest thing to do so basically I think your post is absolute bollocks mate (in the nicest possible way)
Would you vote in an election if no parties had manifestos?

Spot on that Bob. I think the main problem is many people who want to Leave still consider Europe as the opponent, Boris shows this in his language, rather than neighbours who it would be best if we could work with for shared benefits, rather than continually demanding special treatment as we have done with the EU.