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Compromise? How would the Remain side have compromised if the result went the other way? Would we have to put out left legs out?

The current Brexit situation is all because those in charge of the withdrawal didn’t want to withdraw.....and if your reluctant to withdraw you often end up with something nobody wants...

If the result was respected in 2016 and accepted on by all MPs within the UK then I think we would have more than enough time to negotiate a deal the suits both parties......we could have even given Jean Claude Djunker a back hander to grease the wheels (pretty sure that is how it works) ....

If we do leave on WTO terms then it is the fault of those that can’t accept democratic results......I apologise for not using the phrase “crashing out” as I dislike that politicians and media types try to influence those they consider intellectually challenged by using loaded language....
 
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TopBunk said:
Compromise? How would the Remain side have compromised if the result went the other way? Would we have to put out left legs out?

The current Brexit situation is all because those in charge of the withdrawal didn’t want to withdraw.....and if your reluctant to withdraw you often end up with something nobody wants...

If the result was respected in 2016 and accepted on by all MPs within the UK then I think we would have more than enough time to negotiate a deal the suits both parties......we could have even given Jean Claude Djunker a back hander to grease the wheels (pretty sure that is how it works) ....

If we do leave on WTO terms then it is the fault of those that can’t accepts democratic result.......I apologise for not using the phrase “crashing out” as I dislike that politicians and media types try to influence those they consider intellectually challenged by using loaded language....
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It was close to 50/50. In any other kind of election or vote that is a deadlock. There was no definition of what a Brexit would be or even what leaving the EU meant. The election was also flawed in that the Leave campaign operated illegally and employed incredibly dodgy information tactics. So in no sense is there anything of a clear cut democratic result.

Regardless of that, my issue is not particularly with any of that but by the handling of the situation and failure to negotiate by the government. I don’t believe it is down to a lack of desire, it’s down to a lack of competence. And for me, that begs the question why on Earth does anyone value the sovereignty of the British government so highly? The EU looks after the interests of the general British population far better than the Tory government.

It’s a contradiction that Brexiters can’t escape from unless they do so by repeating nonsense soundbites carefully crafted by the Leave PR and Communications people and coordinated and funded by right wing nut jobs that for the most part are not even British.
 
YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
It was close to 50/50. In any other kind of election or vote that is a deadlock. There was no definition of what a Brexit would be or even what leaving the EU meant. The election was also flawed in that the Leave campaign operated illegally and employed incredibly dodgy information tactics. So in no sense is there anything of a clear cut democratic result.

Regardless of that, my issue is not particularly with any of that but by the handling of the situation and failure to negotiate by the government. I don’t believe it is down to a lack of desire, it’s down to a lack of competence. And for me, that begs the question why on Earth does anyone value the sovereignty of the British government so highly? The EU looks after the interests of the general British population far better than the Tory government.

It’s a contradiction that Brexiters can’t escape from unless they do so by repeating nonsense soundbites carefully crafted by the Leave PR and Communications people and coordinated and funded by right wing nut jobs that for the most part are not even British.
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I think ‘deadlock’ is only used on the X factor....52 is higher than 48 as far as I’m aware.......the remain camp used the same tactics as leave as politicians do all the time let’s not just call it out if it goes against ‘our side’

As for the lack of competence I think we agree on that, but I don’t think that is a reason to ignore a democratic vote or to just allow an old boys club to continue to rule against the will of the people.

Sound bites are the ammunition of leave and remain alike and to be honest your don’t have to be ‘British’ to have an opinion on the EU although I’m sure there are plenty of ‘right wing nut jobs’ there is at least an equal amount of Left wing nut jobs......but labelling people to try and win an argument for me means you’ve already lost...
 
If we lose by 1 goal against Sunderland on Saturday shall we demand to play the game again as the result was not what we wanted the first time and as it was so close the result will obviously be flawed!
 
If there is a 2nd referendum and let’s say next time it’s 52-48 for remain, do we have to have a decider?? Then after that we could play best of 5. Now, I voted remain but the simple fact is we lost. Politicians are elected to follow the will of the people and in this case, we should be leaving the EU. after trump won in USA, I bet there was a lot of people that wanted another election but too bad, they have to wait 4 years
 
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Roystonblue said:
If there is a 2nd referendum and let’s say next time it’s 52-48 for remain, do we have to have a decider?? Then after that we could play best of 5. Now, I voted remain but the simple fact is we lost. Politicians are elected to follow the will of the people and in this case, we should be leaving the EU. after trump won in USA, I bet there was a lot of people that wanted another election but too bad, they have to wait 4 years
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The difference there is that it is apparently 'forever'. Except that we voted in and the 70s, so it's not forever. The whole thing is arbitrary and the Leave campaign was illegal, and that's why there is nothing much to 'respect' in terms of democracy.
 
So the 17.4 million people whit voted leave are all criminals for backing an illegal campaign. <yikes> I will nit be able to sleep tonight for fear of having my collar felt some time soon. <laugh>

Truth is Yorkie your side lost so just suck it up <ok> god you need a tonne of sugar to go with those sour grapes!
 
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I've yet to meet a Leave voter who can put forward a compelling case for why we should leave the EU in the first place. It's usually just a load of garbled nonsense about 'respecting democracy', 'will of the people', and 'your side lost, get over it'. I think I recall a few put forward, but they can be well contested and sometimes aren't even backed by fact. I know most people are sick and tired of hearing about Brexit, but it's an important topic in the country and will have far-reaching consequences for almost all of us, and not in a positive way.

1. We will get more money to spend
Technically we do, about a net fee of £8.5bn a year (if you subtract what the EU spends in the UK). However, if you take into account the financial and security benefits of EU membership, such as free trade, that figure sounds worth it (think of it as a subscription fee). Particularly when you account for the natural fact that, in an immediate post-no deal world, the price of our standard of living in this country will increase. Also take into consideration that the EU has some strong worker benefit laws, such as a right to paid annual leave, which may be reversed by a domestic government - particularly this inept, callous bunch in Downing Street.

2. We are too important to the EU
Apparently we're the third biggest economy in the EU, and therefore that makes us important - or so the Leavers will tell you. That of course avoids the natural response that the combined economies of the other 27 countries in the EU far eclipses ours. And when you leave a trade bloc, which has established trade deals and good international relationships, try to go it alone with other countries, that naturally will take time and you won't be as powerful without other nation economies being added to yours. Our economic status will also decline when we leave the EU, especially in the finance sector.

3. We can't trade with other countries
Utter rubbish. If anyone tells you we cannot trade with countries in the Commonwealth, for example, because we're part of the EU - they're talking out of their rear end.

4. Sovereignty
If people want to die on that hill in a debate and argue 'well at least we get our country back', you could ask them what EU rules negatively effect us and you'll struggle to hear a reasonable response. It is much more likely that cut off from the rest of Europe and sidelined from the biggest world trading blocs, we'll be an outsider in world affairs.

5. Immigration
Under EU law, Britain could not prevent a citizen of another member state from coming to live in the UK, and Britons benefited from an equivalent right to live and work anywhere else in the bloc. There is an issue with vast amounts of immigration, however, two points. 1) immigrants make up an important part of our workforce, particularly in our healthcare sector and 2) we have control of our borders outside of Europe. So by removing immigrants from within Europe, there's a of talk we'll have to increase / relax immigration levels from Asia to make up for job / talent losses.
 
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As I recall the vote was “leave or remain” we did not have to write a compelling essay to justify our vote either way.........I’ve yet to be convinced by remainers why we should remain in a corrupt old boys club.
 
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Nuggets said:
I've yet to meet a Leave voter who can put forward a compelling case for why we should leave the EU in the first place. It's usually just a load of garbled nonsense about 'respecting democracy', 'will of the people', and 'your side lost, get over it'. I think I recall a few put forward, but they can be well contested and sometimes aren't even backed by fact. I know most people are sick and tired of hearing about Brexit, but it's an important topic in the country and will have far-reaching consequences for almost all of us, and not in a positive way.

1. We will get more money to spend
Technically we do, about a net fee of £8.5bn a year (if you subtract what the EU spends in the UK). However, if you take into account the financial and security benefits of EU membership, such as free trade, that figure sounds worth it (think of it as a subscription fee). Particularly when you account for the natural fact that, in an immediate post-no deal world, the price of our standard of living in this country will increase. Also take into consideration that the EU has some strong worker benefit laws, such as a right to paid annual leave, which may be reversed by a domestic government - particularly this inept, callous bunch in Downing Street.

2. We are too important to the EU
Apparently we're the third biggest economy in the EU, and therefore that makes us important - or so the Leavers will tell you. That of course avoids the natural response that the combined economies of the other 27 countries in the EU far eclipses ours. And when you leave a trade bloc, which has established trade deals and good international relationships, try to go it alone with other countries, that naturally will take time and you won't be as powerful without other nation economies being added to yours. Our economic status will also decline when we leave the EU, especially in the finance sector.

3. We can't trade with other countries
Utter rubbish. If anyone tells you we cannot trade with countries in the Commonwealth, for example, because we're part of the EU - they're talking out of their rear end.

4. Sovereignty
If people want to die on that hill in a debate and argue 'well at least we get our country back', you could ask them what EU rules negatively effect us and you'll struggle to hear a reasonable response. It is much more likely that cut off from the rest of Europe and sidelined from the biggest world trading blocs, we'll be an outsider in world affairs.

5. Immigration
Under EU law, Britain could not prevent a citizen of another member state from coming to live in the UK, and Britons benefited from an equivalent right to live and work anywhere else in the bloc. There is an issue with vast amounts of immigration, however, two points. 1) immigrants make up an important part of our workforce, particularly in our healthcare sector and 2) we have control of our borders outside of Europe. So by removing immigrants from within Europe, there's a of talk we'll have to increase / relax immigration levels from Asia to make up for job / talent losses.
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Nuanced and sensible arguments as ever,Nuggets.Trouble is you won’t change entrenched views that way!
 
I voted remain and whilst Nuggets you do argue very sensibly and I agree with alot of what you are saying, that is exactly why alot of people voted to leave.

If there is another referendum is should be on if we vote for a deal or no-deal Brexit. Remain shouldn't be on there
 
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itfcptc said:
I voted remain and whilst Nuggets you do argue very sensibly and I agree with alot of what you are saying, that is exactly why alot of people voted to leave.

If there is another referendum is should be on if we vote for a deal or no-deal Brexit. Remain shouldn't be on there
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I agree itfcptc,I think May should have put those options forward to Parliament as a final attempt to sort it and we’d be in sight of an end to this whole debacle.
 
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itfcptc said:
If there is another referendum is should be on if we vote for a deal or no-deal Brexit. Remain shouldn't be on there
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If there is a negotiated deal on the table that has been approved by the EU, the government and parliament then why would anyone at all vote against that for a no deal instead?
 
YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
If there is a negotiated deal on the table that has been approved by the EU, the government and parliament then why would anyone at all vote against that for a no deal instead?
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Don't be so naive Yorkie,the reason we are where we are now,is ,mostly,because the far right of the Tory party wouldn't vote for the deal that had taken the best part of three years to negotiate and have no fear of a "no deal" as they are totally insulated from any adverse consequences.

Not enough has been made about that element of the Tory Party which frustrated Brexit (and the "will of the people") in stopping May from completing the task she was voted in for by her own Party (and an albeit reduced majority at a General Election).But that's a subtlety beyond the comprehension of the headline writers.
 
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