What a 24 hours!

[Scowey]

With the greatest respect Scowey I believe you have missed the point I was making
if we stay in eu and have to abide to their rules then we have absolutely no control over how many eu immigrants arrive here, while I have no personal vendetta against any immigrants, surely you have to agree that having no control over the numbers allowed in is absolutely madness

I think we're either misunderstanding each other... Or have very different philosophical views on the matter

Yes, leaving the EU would allow us to have more 'control' on EU immigration* (more on that later).. But the point I have continually made is that immigration from within the EU isn't anywhere near as high as red top tabloids would have you believe and the vast majority of migrants arrive here from Pakistan, Sri Lanka and other Asian countries... Which is something we have been able to 'control' for years... Clearly we haven't and that is not going to change one regardless of what type of Brexit we have.

The point I'm making is that if we "take control" of the (something like) 10% of total immigration that comes from within the EU then it won't provide the Utopia that Farage and Co have been peddling. It won't impact on immigration from the remianing 90% (I accept that is good enough for some people and accept that is their opinion to have)

You can also look at immigration argument in terms of wider costs to Great Britain and it's citizens.. It will likely lead to tit for tat policies from EU nations and plenty of Ex pats are going to be very hard done by. In fact you could look at the numbers emigrating to EU and the total net will reduce dramatically

 

[stretchyboy]

Precisely why there should not have been a national referendum on EU membership.

Not meant as a dig, but in my opinion - proof that to many people, they just don't care enough about politics and the details of the EU to make an informed, reasoned decision.

Nothing to do with not caring - but just reading everyone's views and opinions on here alone is enough to frazzle your brain. There's 5 or 6 of you, all with different ideas, all with different opinions and all with different "facts". No one really knows what is going on, and definitely no one knows what will happen once we leave the EU. It is an absolute minefield, and even the the most intellectually minded are probably scratching their heads trying to work out what "might" happen". There will be both positives and negatives of leaving the EU. As i said earlier, we will all deal with the outcome in our own way. Whether that's paying more taxes, paying more for a loaf of bread, the housing market crashing (or doing the opposite) or whether some of us lose our jobs.
As long as i have my own house in order, then i really don't give two sh!ts whether we leave or not, just make your bloody minds up. And yes, i know that is an extremely selfish view to take, but only one person truly has my best interests at heart, and thats me alone, not some multi millionaire politician who's only trying to line their own pockets.

 

[Scowey]

I'm not as old as some posters on here, but I think we can find some common ground and agree that both the main two parties are perhaps at their lowest ever point.

I mean, the mess the Tories have been in but Labour haven't been able to lay a glove on them, as they have their own infighting and divison, Lib Dems are even less relevant (by that I mean influential) than they were 10 years ago so we have two very sorry excuses of political parties who I wouldn't trust to organise a village fete let alone anything more serious.

I'm sure older posters can think of other examples, but (in my lifetime at least) I cannot think of a time when Conservatives or Labour were in a worse state and we're left suffering as they're both going through it at exactly the same time.

 

[stretchyboy]

I'm not as old as some posters on here, but I think we can find some common ground and agree that both the main two parties are perhaps at their lowest ever point.

I mean, the mess the Tories have been in but Labour haven't been able to lay a glove on them, as they have their own infighting and divison, Lib Dems are even less relevant (by that I mean influential) than they were 10 years ago so we have two very sorry excuses of political parties who I wouldn't trust to organise a village fete let alone anything more serious.

I'm sure older posters can think of other examples, but (in my lifetime at least) I cannot think of a time when Conservatives or Labour were in a worse state and we're left suffering as they're both going through it at exactly the same time.

Kinda like a Bolton V Ipswich fixture...

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Nothing to do with not caring - but just reading everyone's views and opinions on here alone is enough to frazzle your brain. There's 5 or 6 of you, all with different ideas, all with different opinions and all with different "facts". No one really knows what is going on, and definitely no one knows what will happen once we leave the EU. It is an absolute minefield, and even the the most intellectually minded are probably scratching their heads trying to work out what "might" happen". There will be both positives and negatives of leaving the EU. As i said earlier, we will all deal with the outcome in our own way. Whether that's paying more taxes, paying more for a loaf of bread, the housing market crashing (or doing the opposite) or whether some of us lose our jobs.
As long as i have my own house in order, then i really don't give two sh!ts whether we leave or not, just make your bloody minds up. And yes, i know that is an extremely selfish view to take, but only one person truly has my best interests at heart, and thats me alone, not some multi millionaire politician who's only trying to line their own pockets.

Facts are precisely that stretchy.

Much as Donald Trump and the Daily Mail might try to alter this they are not able to.

If we want to take unemployment - it’s a fact that employment is at its highest level for over 40 years.

Where it gets interesting is that the nature of those jobs has changed over that time. In those days people by and large were still in their full time ‘job for life’. Now people work part time, are self employed or on casual zero hours contracts.

So the fact on its own is pretty useless. It’s how you interpret that that’s important.

Humans are emotional beings and it comes down more to ideology and philosophy and which people and publications we choose to listen to and believe.

Regarding looking after your own interests. A colleague of mine voted for David Cameron in 2015 - he said he was doing well, his family was doing well and that was his reason. Fast forward a few years and his sister who was a teacher is having to feed and clothe kids at her school and he is complaining that his grandmother who is very seriously ill was in A&E for 14 hours before she was seen. In a society it’s simply impossible to separate your own interests from the interests and benefit of everyone.

A few millionaires will be better off after Brexit but for the rest of us, even those of us who happen to earn more money, will be so much poorer.​

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

I'm not as old as some posters on here, but I think we can find some common ground and agree that both the main two parties are perhaps at their lowest ever point.

I mean, the mess the Tories have been in but Labour haven't been able to lay a glove on them, as they have their own infighting and divison, Lib Dems are even less relevant (by that I mean influential) than they were 10 years ago so we have two very sorry excuses of political parties who I wouldn't trust to organise a village fete let alone anything more serious.

I'm sure older posters can think of other examples, but (in my lifetime at least) I cannot think of a time when Conservatives or Labour were in a worse state and we're left suffering as they're both going through it at exactly the same time.

Far from it, Tony Blair’s era was the lowest point for the Labour Party. This is the best shape the Labour Party has been in since the 1960s, albeit there is still a long way for the party to go and transition.

It is certainly a much better place without careerist Blairite Tories in a red tie like Chuka Umuna.

 

[stretchyboy]

Not going to try and get into a debate, as i'm really not politically educated enough to make a valid point, but...

"If we want to take unemployment - it’s a fact that employment is at its highest level for over 40 years. "
That's not exactly true, the numbers are fudged markedly (for example, older students who are on a "day release" once a week are classed as "employed" .

 

[Scowey]

Far from it, Tony Blair’s era was the lowest point for the Labour Party. This is the best shape the Labour Party has been in since the 1960s, albeit there is still a long way for the party to go and transition.

It is certainly a much better place without careerist Blairite Tories in a red tie like Chuka Umuna.

If that were the case then surely they could have made more of an impact on the dogs dinner that the Tories have made of things since Cameron resigned. I would argue that Tories have been given so much freedom to sleepwalk us into a mess completely unchecked. The lack lack of competition from Labour to try and hold them to account is part of the wider issue.

I have no real political leaning as I don't understand those who vote purely on the colour of the rosette the candidate happens to be wearing. Personally I'd love to see some serious debate on long term strategic policy, but politics has regressed into even more childish in fighting and self preservation than it ever was

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Not going to try and get into a debate, as i'm really not politically educated enough to make a valid point, but...

"If we want to take unemployment - it’s a fact that employment is at its highest level for over 40 years. "
That's not exactly true, the numbers are fudged markedly (for example, older students who are on a "day release" once a week are classed as "employed" .

Precisely stretchy. It is a fact that more people are employed - even without any ‘fudging’. But what constitutes being employed has changed.

It’s incredible that we have so many people in full time work who have to rely on food banks.

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

If that were the case then surely they could have made more of an impact on the dogs dinner that the Tories have made of things since Cameron resigned. I would argue that Tories have been given so much freedom to sleepwalk us into a mess completely unchecked. The lack lack of competition from Labour to try and hold them to account is part of the wider issue.

I have no real political leaning as I don't understand those who vote purely on the colour of the rosette the candidate happens to be wearing. Personally I'd love to see some serious debate on long term strategic policy, but politics has regressed into even more childish in fighting and self preservation than it ever was

They have made a hell of an impact, otherwise the government wouldn’t keep being defeated in the commons. The SNP now has a lot of MPs so Labour is not likely to get a majority in the House of Commons at least for another decade. But if there were a general election now then Corbyn would become the PM.

The party has a long way to go, there is still a media campaign to present him in a negative light and there are still plenty of his own MPs who do not want him there. But it is a vast improvement on Milliband, Blair, Kinnock, Foot or Callaghan.

 

[Nuggets]

They have made a hell of an impact, otherwise the government wouldn’t keep being defeated in the commons. The SNP now has a lot of MPs so Labour is not likely to get a majority in the House of Commons at least for another decade. But if there were a general election now then Corbyn would become the PM.

The party has a long way to go, there is still a media campaign to present him in a negative light and there are still plenty of his own MPs who do not want him there. But it is a vast improvement on Milliband, Blair, Kinnock, Foot or Callaghan.

Blair won three elections with Labour. There are some things he did well (Good Friday agreement, minimum wage, domestic approach led to healthy NHS and schools and public services) and some things he got very wrong (Iraq, cuddling up to media moguls and worried about appearance, courting the rich). Corbyn has some policies I strongly agree with, and I don't think he's an extreme left-wing as right wing media makes him out to be (he's effectively a Scandinavian social democrat) but he has been indecisive on Brexit, has a massive image problem with the wider electorate (not entirely his fault, but he does little to rectify it), and seems too stubborn and inflexible to be considered a strong leader, in my opinion. I'd still vote for him over the Tories any day though. The Tories have been responsible for this mess and the sustained austerity they've inflicted on large swathes of the country.

 

[Yorkiegit26]

This is the best shape the Labour Party has been in since the 1960s,

ROFL

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Blair won three elections with Labour. There are some things he did well (Good Friday agreement, minimum wage, domestic approach led to healthy NHS and schools and public services) and some things he got very wrong (Iraq, cuddling up to media moguls and worried about appearance, courting the rich). Corbyn has some policies I strongly agree with, and I don't think he's an extreme left-wing as right wing media makes him out to be (he's effectively a Scandinavian social democrat) but he has been indecisive on Brexit, has a massive image problem with the wider electorate (not entirely his fault, but he does little to rectify it), and seems too stubborn and inflexible to be considered a strong leader, in my opinion. I'd still vote for him over the Tories any day though. The Tories have been responsible for this mess and the sustained austerity they've inflicted on large swathes of the country.

I don't think he has nearly as big an image problem as the mainstream media would like you to believe. Dianne Abbot does, unquestionably, but she is a great, very hardworking woman who should be celebrated in spite of her media gaffes. She would not be getting this abuse if she were still an attractive young woman, which is an indictment of our society.

Blair's approach has not led to healthy hospitals, schools or public services. Schools and health services were privatised and public transport here in Yorkshire is in such a state it's not a viable option for commuters. Tories are squeezing budgets but the main reason for the state of our schools and hospitals is that private companies are making profit that is not being reinvested.

 

[Yorkiegit26]

But if there were a general election now then Corbyn would become the PM.

You cant be serious that man is TOTALLY unelectable, Labour needs to do itself a favour and elect a new leader (good luck with that) to stand any chance at all

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

You cant be serious that man is TOTALLY unelectable, Labour needs to do itself a favour and elect a new leader (good luck with that) to stand any chance at all

Labour and the Tories are pretty much neck and neck in the polls and Labour have at times been a few points ahead, dramatic improvement on Milliband's time. With the SNP MPs on board it's a pretty sure bet. He is favourite to be next Prime Minister even ahead of any Tories.

 

[stretchyboy]

I don't think he has nearly as big an image problem as the mainstream media would like you to believe. Dianne Abbot does, unquestionably, but she is a great, very hardworking woman who should be celebrated in spite of her media gaffes. She would not be getting this abuse if she were still an attractive young woman, which is an indictment of our society.

Blair's approach has not led to healthy hospitals, schools or public services. Schools and health services were privatised and public transport here in Yorkshire is in such a state it's not a viable option for commuters. Tories are squeezing budgets but the main reason for the state of our schools and hospitals is that private companies are making profit that is not being reinvested.

Oh my days I've heard it all now....that must go down as one of the funniest lines i've heard in my life LOL

Dianne Abbot...great? PMSL

 

[YorkieLancsHampyLondoner]

Oh my days I've heard it all now....that must go down as one of the funniest lines i've heard in my life LOL

Dianne Abbot...great? PMSL

This article sums it all up pretty nicely. https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

Dianne is a truly exceptional woman.

Funny that this video of an award winning speech doesn't get shared alongside her unfortunate LBC interview.

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[Southcoastoldgaffer]

Oh don't be ridiculous man, you are now resorting to 'yeah but they might move in the future'
ridiculous argument, something you might expect from a spotty teenager LMAO

Sorry, Yorkie, Swindon have lost Honda, and have no confidence in Britain's future. Massive impact on the town, jobs, incomes, families. I know some.

Dont tell me it's a coincidence that, what 6 major car manufactures are relocating, mostly to Europe!

 

[Yorkiegit26]

Sorry, Yorkie, Swindon have lost Honda, and have no confidence in Britain's future. Massive impact on the town, jobs, incomes, families. I know some.

Dont tell me it's a coincidence that, what 6 major car manufactures are relocating, mostly to Europe!

's idiocy of EPIC proportions!' Honda worker slams Government's handling of Brexit after Swindon factory closure puts 3,500 jobs at risk - but car giant insists move is NOT related to Britain leaving EU

• Japanese firm tells workers it proposes to close vehicle manufacturing plant
• Workers at Wiltshire factory react angrily with UK car manufacturing in turmoil
• Honda blames 'changes coming at us globally', saying: 'This is not Brexit related'
• Business Secretary Greg Clark admits closure is a 'devastating decision for UK'
• Honda sends its Swindon workforce home for the day after confirming plans

By Mark Duell and Amie Gordon For Mailonline

Published: 08:04, 19 February 2019 | Updated: 01:00, 20 February 2019



NUFF SAID??????

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[stretchyboy]

Award winning speech? What award did it win??