Heung min son

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Most important player

  • Total voters
    24
Dier Hard said:
Power compared Winks with Jorginho, Xhaka, Wijnaldum, Fernandinho and Matic, those players are all different in styles. Jorginho was meant to provide the creative spark for Chelsea yet has failed to do so, no one knows (not even Arsenal fans) what it is Xhaka is meant to do, Fernandinho and Matic are two ball-winning midfielders, Wijnaldum might be the only one who's genuinely close to Winks in terms of style. The reason I compare Winks with Pogba/ Brooks/ Gundogan/ David Silva/ Doucoure etc is because that's the level and type of player we could do with, it's why I'm not a huge fan of Winks' style in this team. We have the steel and power in Dier and Sissoko but we don't have the creativity.

Most top sides have creativity from deep:

Utd - Pogba. City - Gundogan/ Silva/ KdB. Juve - Pjanic. Bayern - Thiago. Barca - Rakitic/ Arthur. Real - Modric/ Kroos. We lack that type of player and I don't think it's a coincidence most of those sides are the ones we want to emulate in terms of success. This is why I've wanted improvement at CM for two or so windows now, I really do believe Spurs can get to a level like most of those but we must improve areas like CM as well as RB to do so.
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I didn't say Winks played the same style as those, I said he played in the same area of the pitch. Our main disagreement is that I think that his control in midfield is one of the reasons we are having our best ever season in the PL. There are definitely better players in that position who we could buy for 75m but almost none of the ones in your list routinely play there. I think Thiago is really the only one. Modric and Kroos can but usually play as the more forward players in a midfield 3. I see Winks as a more creative version of Dier.
 
PowerSpurs said:
I see Winks as a more creative version of Dier.
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That's the position that he's been asked to play and I don't think that he's entirely suited to it in our current systems.
He ends up really deep and can get really isolated and exposed at times. He's adjusting to it, but it's a process.
 
PowerSpurs said:
I didn't say Winks played the same style as those, I said he played in the same area of the pitch. Our main disagreement is that I think that his control in midfield is one of the reasons we are having our best ever season in the PL. There are definitely better players in that position who we could buy for 75m but almost none of the ones in your list routinely play there. I think Thiago is really the only one. Modric and Kroos can but usually play as the more forward players in a midfield 3. I see Winks as a more creative version of Dier.
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So does Pogba, Gundogan and co play in the same area. They're all CMs. The different styles is all that separate them. We need more of a Pobga/ Gundogan type and not a Xhaka/ Jorginho one, we already have a Matic type in Dier and a Fernandinho type in Sissoko (albeit Sissoko is also more forward thinking when in possession).

You seem to have a fixation with the figure of £75m, as if that's the only amount that guarantees a better player. Brooks and Doucoure are two examples of that being false. Gundogan cost City £40m. It's only Pogba who was bought for an extortionate amount.

I disagree on the Winks/ Dier part. Dier is a protector of the back four, he provides steel to a side who has a lot of flair. Winks is someone who helps retain possession, that's perfect if we're defending a narrow lead but not ideal if we're chasing a goal. Neither are more creative than the other though.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Pogba doesn't play well in a deep role. He was awful and hated it when Mourinho played him there.
One of the biggest improvements in Utd's play has come because Solskjaer used Matic and Herrera there and freed him up.
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Deep as in not an attacking midfielder I mean.

Pogba doesn't play as a ten like say Alli/ Eriksen does. He's a central midfielder who roams forward, that's the type of player I want at Spurs and who I think Spurs could really prosper with. Someone who relieves that creative burden on Eriksen. Sort of like a Modric to a van der Vaart.
 
Dier Hard said:
Deep as in not an attacking midfielder I mean.

Pogba doesn't play as a ten like say Alli/ Eriksen does. He's a central midfielder who roams forward, that's the type of player I want at Spurs and who I think Spurs could really prosper with. Someone who relieves that creative burden on Eriksen. Sort of like a Modric to a van der Vaart.
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Pogba is an attacking midfielder. He's crap at playing a deeper, more responsible role.
He was on the left of a three at Juventus and now he's either there or further forward for Utd.
Ask him to play at the base of a diamond or the central, defensive player in a three and he's poor, as Mourinho found out.
 
To add onto my previous points, the easiest way I try determining if the first XI (plus better squad options) can be improved upon is by judging if those we have can make the XIs or squads of our top four/ six rivals. The fact we've been in the top three for the past three seasons and on course for a fourth certainly says most should be, in my opinion I'd say:

Hugo - Yes, most.
Gazza - He'd probably make Arsenal and Chelsea's XI, let alone squad.
Trippier/ Aurier - No.
Toby & Jan - Yes, all.
Dave - Yes, a couple.
Rose - Yes, all (only when fully fit though).
Davies - Maybe a couple.
Dier - Yes, a couple.
Wanyama - No, too unreliable.
Sissoko - Yes, a couple.
Winks - Not first XIs, maybe squads.
Eriksen, Son and Alli - Yes, all.
Lamela and Lucas - Yes in terms of squads, probably not XIs.
Kane - Yes, with his eyes shut.

So for me, the areas we need to look at improving are RB (Trippier and Aurier), CM (Winks) and DM (Wanyama), whilst as long as Rose can prove his fitness we wouldn't have to worry about LB.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Pogba is an attacking midfielder. He's crap at playing a deeper, more responsible role.
He was on the left of a three at Juventus and now he's either there or further forward for Utd.
Ask him to play at the base of a diamond or the central, defensive player in a three and he's poor, as Mourinho found out.
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He's an attack minded central midfielder. His starting position has always been in the middle of the park. For instance if Pogba played for Spurs he'd play alongside Dier or Sissoko, behind the attacking midfielders like Dele, Eriksen and Son. With Utd he plays in that midfield three. For France he generally plays alongside Kante or whoever the DM is on the day, whilst the likes of Griezman/ Dembele and others play further in front supporting Mbappe. He's never really played the ten role which is what you'd usually class as an attacking mid, he's often been the number eight for a side.
 
Dier Hard said:
He's an attack minded central midfielder. His starting position has always been in the middle of the park. For instance if Pogba played for Spurs he'd play alongside Dier or Sissoko, behind the attacking midfielders like Dele, Eriksen and Son. With Utd he plays in that midfield three. For France he generally plays alongside Kante or whoever the DM is on the day, whilst the likes of Griezman/ Dembele and others play further in front supporting Mbappe. He's never really played the ten role which is what you'd usually class as an attacking mid, he's often been the number eight for a side.
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Picking him alongside Kante frees him up completely, as the man's a solo midfield! <laugh>
We're basically asking Winks to do Kante's job in that scenario, rather than Pogba's.
He's also been doing it on his own in either a three or a diamond. Pogba would be awful in either, if he were to play it.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Picking him alongside Kante frees him up completely, as the man's a solo midfield! <laugh>
We're basically asking Winks to do Kante's job in that scenario, rather than Pogba's.
He's also been doing it on his own in either a three or a diamond. Pogba would be awful in either, if he were to play it.
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Haha true, although try telling Sarri that. You'd think having Kante in your team would give Jorginho/ Kovacic licence to roam, instead he seems to think Kante is the one who should be doing the roaming... Bizarre.

I think Pogba is someone who you'd build a team around too. He's a bit of a luxury but he's a luxury worth having when he's on point.

As for Winks, he's someone who I think as a squad option is good for when your side want to retain possession in periods but he's not someone I'd wanna see starting most games. He's definitely improved in the past few weeks but there's a still huge gap in quality from where I think we need him to be if we're to seriously push on.
 
As Leicester showed, sometimes it’s about the collective. Having a group of players who aren’t necessarily outstanding but who just somehow gel together. Combine that with team spirit and you can go a long way.

Leicester had three outstanding players, Mahrez, Kante, and Vardy. Pretty much as we do with Kane, Eriksen, Son - and I’m not even including Dele.

The rest were bang average. Drinkwater, Sampson, Huth, ffs!...but somehow it all just gelled together and they walked the title by 10 points. Yes, I know others had a **** season but that doesn’t detract greatly from Leicester’s achievement.

So, we probably have the resources in our squad to win a title. We just need the right combo and the self belief and refusal to be beaten.
 
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Son has been class.
Most important player? I don't go for that in a team game as how do you compare a forward to a defender?
He's certainly been invaluable to Spurs in the last few months.
He's a typical modern player. His attributes enable him to play so many roles.
30 years ago, he'd have been discarded as not big and strong enough to be a centre forward, not fast enough to be a winger and not clever enough to be a midfielder. In the modern game, he's all those things.
 
Dier Hard said:
So does Pogba, Gundogan and co play in the same area. They're all CMs. The different styles is all that separate them. We need more of a Pobga/ Gundogan type and not a Xhaka/ Jorginho one, we already have a Matic type in Dier and a Fernandinho type in Sissoko (albeit Sissoko is also more forward thinking when in possession).

You seem to have a fixation with the figure of £75m, as if that's the only amount that guarantees a better player. Brooks and Doucoure are two examples of that being false. Gundogan cost City £40m. It's only Pogba who was bought for an extortionate amount.

I disagree on the Winks/ Dier part. Dier is a protector of the back four, he provides steel to a side who has a lot of flair. Winks is someone who helps retain possession, that's perfect if we're defending a narrow lead but not ideal if we're chasing a goal. Neither are more creative than the other though.
Click to expand...

Actually gundogan was a bargain . Think they paid like 21m for him
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Son has been class.
Most important player? I don't go for that in a team game as how do you compare a forward to a defender?
He's certainly been invaluable to Spurs in the last few months.
He's a typical modern player. His attributes enable him to play so many roles.
30 years ago, he'd have been discarded as not big and strong enough to be a centre forward, not fast enough to be a winger and not clever enough to be a midfielder. In the modern game, he's all those things.
Click to expand...

Agree with all these except the being fast enough. Son is rapid. Hed probably be glued to the wing though whereas hes been so effective because he has a free role and is allowed to make his intelligent runs
 
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Josh Challies
  • 21:00, 22 FEB 2019
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Son Heung-Min has been more instrumental than Harry Kane for Tottenham Hotspur this season, new research has shown, with the former being sorely missed while on international duty.

The South Korean has scored in four consecutive matches since returning from international duty, including in the 3-0 Champions League win against Borussia Dortmund, and has carried the mantle in the absence of Harry Kane and Dele Alli.

Mauricio Pochettino’s side sit as outsiders in the hunt for the Premier League title but their chances are often written off due to the absence of Kane in particular - but it appears the tune should be changed.

Research from bettingexpert.com shows that Tottenham have actually won 100% of their matches this season without Kane, compared to a win rate of just 67% without Son in the side.

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