Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Staines R's said:
To be fair Paul, I’m no wine buff but some of the new world stuff seems far superior to some of the French wine I’ve drank recently.
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Totally agree Staines
I hate French cheese as well
Give me English mature anyway
Around me I have friends who drink large amounts of wine most of the day next day they mainly disfunctional and moan about their health etc
I am a sunrise person up and out with a clear mind
Life is my drug
My posts re wine is to reflect what other posters seem to think in my example how things might be regarding how maybe the French will cope without the U.K. market ... ie revelling in a failure
My point is that from my very small snap shot they seem to be able to diversify and plan a lot better than perhaps we could ever dream of

I ensure the forum that this comes from a total routine of bi weekly transformation that I see and am battling still to balance out

So much so that I returned to the U.K. on Wednesday for hospital and was due back to France on the 20th ... can’t do it even missing Tuesdays replay now as grabbed a flight last night and currently on route to Luton to get out ... crazy stuff as it will save me £300 just in work travel

Sod the French wine growers
I have four massive tanks in my cellars and one will shortly be a hot tub and one day I will be in it watching Our team win in the premiership week in week out
 
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So having successfully bribed the DUP, May is now offering bribes to Labour MPs in deprived (due to Tory austerity) Northern constituencies. If such shameless dirty politics happened in Italy we'd all be pointing fingers at their brazen corruption.
 
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YorkshireHoopster said:
What a selective memory you have. The first nine months were wasted by the leadership election and then the most stupid election campaign ever fought. Throughout that and the next year or so she blustered and threatened while David Davies played the fool. The only reason she said a deal would be easy was because all you Brexiteers thought it would be. You overestimated the importance of the UK to the rest of Europe. You must also be a remarkably good lip reader or have very acute hearing to have heard the EU leadership say under its breath 'but we'll make you pay for it'. They didn't. They said we must agree the debt first for the remainder of the 2 year period and unpaid past benefits received which had not been fully paid for. that was something which in principle nobody could disagree with especially as at that stage we said that it was a hallmark of British behaviour to pay its debts. That was correct but now it seems all Brexiteers say that should not have been said ever. May and others did temper that with various threats not to pay over a penny and to review the status of all EU nationals working lawfully in this country. How can you forget that disgraceful posturing?

It was part of the cloud cuckoo land Brexiteers live in to even think that they would agree to a trade deal first with a departing member company which has uttered threats from day one after the Referendum. If they had done so they would have been criticised for surrendering to UK threats and demands and as you have said the EU has history of negotiating deals down to the last minute. Even more madness which none of you could see that if was all that easy and rosy to forge new trade deals, so much time should not have been wasted arguing over the size of the bill - after all we all knew there would be a bill to be paid and presumably someone in Whitehall had records which could be looked at in good time. As I understand it £39 billion was a reasonable price agreed with considerable concessions being made on both sides - the sort of compromise you and I are both accustomed to negotiating for our respective clients.

It's very easy now for you all to heap the blame on to May when the whole Brexit camp was guilty of the same lack of preparation, over-confidence,negligence and bungling. It wasn't until the Chequers meeting that May finally had enough and forced everyone to give up their mobile phones and recording equipment before she started the meeting and got them all to agree with her proposals. What an incredible lack of balls and fighting spirit was shown then. Nobody walked out or left. They all signed up and waited a while to ponder their conscience before doing anything.

Nobody challenged her but all sniped away insidiously. eventually when JRM eventually called for a leadership contest neither nor any of the other leaders put themselves forward and he could only muster a measly 23 votes. Pathetic. Meanwhile the clock kept ticking. And throughout all this time, the UK had ignored the Irish question - something which Barnier had stated at the very outset to be one of the three big issues to be resolved.

So in summary, yes I agree May has been a disaster.
But the blame falls equally on the shoulders of the Brexit leadership for lack of leadership, statesmanship and lack of a more sensible strategy from the outset. She has ​
steered the UK straight at the iceberg because she has been listening to conflicting and ill-thought out advice and tactics from her Brexit war commanders. The rudders were not broken. She was paralysed for so long in taking effective action by the ineptitude of those around her and only telling her what to do through interviews with tame journalists - the sort who put up pictures of judges and opponents with their addresses and labels of traitor. Nice. Civilized. None of the patriots in the Tory leadership tried to wrest control of the steering wheel from her until we were too close to the iceberg.

Finally on a lighter note, there is an easy way out of this impasse. **** the DUP . They've had their money and have failed to give the support they promised to the government to govern. Tear up the deal. Reinstate the backstop in full and then agree the trade deal within the implementation period. There are vast untold riches waiting for British entrepeneurs to plunder with the rest of the World while continuing to drive their BMWs, stocking their Bosch fridge freezers and continuing to gorge on foie gras , snails and haute French cuisine. So what are you waiting for? Get on with it. ​
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On the "under your breath" point in your long rant, your man Martyn Selmayr (he of the prominent Nazi family and known at the monster because of the way he deals with people) said that losing Northern Ireland was the price the UK must pay for seeking to leave the EU. Selmayr is now apparently heading up the EU side of the negotiations, having been sponsored by his mentor, Juncker. It's all by appointment, not by election - classically EU.

The Brexit negotiations have been conducted disasterously, because May, a Remainer, never believed in what she was doing and her servant, Robbins was an unapologetic fan of the EU.

I just want to see this finished now. If it's no deal, so be it. Get it done.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
On the "under your breath" point in your long rant, your man Martyn Selmayr (he of the prominent Nazi family and known at the monster because of the way he deals with people) said that losing Northern Ireland was the price the UK must pay for seeking to leave the EU. Selmayr is now apparently heading up the EU side of the negotiations, having been sponsored by his mentor, Juncker. It's all by appointment, not by election - classically EU.

The Brexit negotiations have been conducted disasterously, because May, a Remainer, never believed in what she was doing and her servant, Robbins was an unapologetic fan of the EU.

I just want to see this finished now. If it's no deal, so be it. Get it done.
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What’s the rush? I’m guessing you’re someone who would be less adversely affected by a “just get it done” no deal than most.
 
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West WindsR said:
What’s the rush? I’m guessing you’re someone who would be less adversely affected by a “just get it done” no deal than most.
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If there's an extension for a few weeks, fine. If the backstop is time limited, and we enter a May's deal, fine. But short of these, it's not Brexit.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
On the "under your breath" point in your long rant, your man Martyn Selmayr (he of the prominent Nazi family and known at the monster because of the way he deals with people) said that losing Northern Ireland was the price the UK must pay for seeking to leave the EU. Selmayr is now apparently heading up the EU side of the negotiations, having been sponsored by his mentor, Juncker. It's all by appointment, not by election - classically EU.

The Brexit negotiations have been conducted disasterously, because May, a Remainer, never believed in what she was doing and her servant, Robbins was an unapologetic fan of the EU.

I just want to see this finished now. If it's no deal, so be it. Get it done.
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Will the people you want to replace Olly Robbins be elected?
 
West WindsR said:
Yes, it is. The ballot said nothing about Goldie’s preferred version of Brexit.
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If we stay in the Customs Union and Single Market, we may as well stay in the EU. Which of course, a lot of Remainers would like. But both Tory and Labour MP's from Leave majority constituencies know they'll lose their job at the next GE if it happens
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
If we stay in the Customs Union and Single Market, we may as well stay in the EU. Which of course, a lot of Remainers would like. But both Tory and Labour MP's from Leave majority constituencies know they'll lose their job at the next GE if it happens
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It’s not really their fault that people are keen to shoot their own feet off. The plebs will largely vote the same way they always have without even checking the name on the sheet. Most people would still vote blue or red if it meant voting for Ted Bundy. Again though, it was a vote to leave the EU. No more and no less.
 
West WindsR said:
It’s not really their fault that people are keen to shoot their own feet off. The plebs will largely vote the same way they always have without even checking the name on the sheet. Most people would still vote blue or red if it meant voting for Ted Bundy. Again though, it was a vote to leave the EU. No more and no less.
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Slightly arrogant language, Watford! Before the referendum, there was a huge move from blue and red towards UKIP. I recall that UKIP got 4 million votes in the GE. Since then, the move has been away from UKIP due to expectancy that the referendum result will be respected. But if it's not, there'd be a massive move towards UKIP or similar right wing parties imo. Strolls will probably say, bring it on, but that's what would happen
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Slightly arrogant language, Watford! Before the referendum, there was a huge move from blue and red towards UKIP. I recall that UKIP got 4 million votes in the GE. Since then, the move has been away from UKIP due to expectancy that the referendum result will be respected. But if it's not, there'd be a massive move towards UKIP or similar right wing parties imo. Strolls will probably say, bring it on, but that's what would happen
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I agree. Bring it on if that’s what “the people” want. Politicians should still act in their constituents’ best interests rather than blindly obeying their wishes.
 
West WindsR said:
I agree. Bring it on if that’s what “the people” want. Politicians should still act in their constituents’ best interests rather than blindly obeying their wishes.
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Not when Parliament has given the people the vote on an issue and the prime minister at the time said the result would be honoured. I believe that most MP's accept that now, and there are stop afoot to deselect those that don't, like Grieve, Soubry and Umunna
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Not when Parliament has given the people the vote on an issue and the prime minister at the time said the result would be honoured. I believe that most MP's accept that now, and there are stop afoot to deselect those that don't, like Grieve, Soubry and Umunna
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It is being honoured though. Just not in the way you want.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Slightly arrogant language, Watford! Before the referendum, there was a huge move from blue and red towards UKIP. I recall that UKIP got 4 million votes in the GE. Since then, the move has been away from UKIP due to expectancy that the referendum result will be respected. But if it's not, there'd be a massive move towards UKIP or similar right wing parties imo. Strolls will probably say, bring it on, but that's what would happen
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Hardly anyone would give a **** about a permanent Customs Union, or some other such outcome that you would call BRINO. All the Kippers cared about was immigration. As long as free movement is stopped, they'll have got their way.
 
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