Holgate and Firmino incident !

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luvgonzo said:
It's not that it's hard to believe, it's just that we have no ****ing clue as to what actually happened but people will just pick a side based on absolutly no real knowledge and condemn Holgate for his actions.

He may have misheard something, he may have lied we have no clue really.
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Have a look at my post above re being on a disciplinary panel and weigh up the evidence. What is the evidence that he didn't?
 
There's more circumstantial evidence to suggest Holgate made it up than there is actual evidence that Bobby said that word. Circumstantial evidence is normally enough for the the FA to charge a player not from Uniturd, and if he would have been charged he would have been in the position of having to prove his innocence. Ergo, Holgate, by the MUFA's bent and twisted rules and precedents, is bang-to-rights and should be banned for a hundred games.
 
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luvgonzo said:
Who knows, but it's wrong to brand him a liar without knowing the actual facts.
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I can only judge on the available evidence, which currently points to Holgate being a liar. If he apologises and shakes Firmino's hand then the evidence would then support him making a mistake. The FA could also clear it up by releasing the findings of their investigation which they did in the Suarez case but is noticeably missing in this case.
 
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FSG's Last Stand said:
Now the Firmino thing has been put to bed the Everton kid still has the homophobic Twitter thing to face, as Tobes said much earlier in the thread, he was about 15-16 when he posted the remarks, the FA being a law unto themselves and making it up as they go along probably won't take his age into consideration, they have already banned a Burnley player for homophobic tweets posted 7 years ago so it's not looking great for Holgate in those terms.
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Fair enough if they are consistent for everyone.

Trouble is that doesn't include themselves
 
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FSG's Last Stand said:
Now the Firmino thing has been put to bed the Everton kid still has the homophobic Twitter thing to face, as Tobes said much earlier in the thread, he was about 15-16 when he posted the remarks, the FA being a law unto themselves and making it up as they go along probably won't take his age into consideration, they have already banned a Burnley player for homophobic tweets posted 7 years ago so it's not looking great for Holgate in those terms.
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It's crazy isn't it? We all make mistakes and get dragging into issues by peers when we're young but the point is we live and learn and hopefully change. He should't face any action for something done as a kid.
 
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luvgonzo said:
It's crazy isn't it? We all make mistakes and get dragging into issues by peers when we're young but the point is we live and learn and hopefully change. He should't face any action for something done as a kid.
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No IMO he definitely should face action, but that action should take into account the fact that he was a kid. If the FA does genuinely care about equality then it has to send a clear message that Holgate's public posts were unacceptable, but can also accept that Holgate was probably reflecting the opinions of his peers rather than being 100% to blame as an individual, so a reduced punishment such as no ban but a course on responsible social media or participation in some outreach.
 
luvgonzo said:
It's crazy isn't it? We all make mistakes and get dragging into issues by peers when we're young but the point is we live and learn and hopefully change. He should't face any action for something done as a kid.
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I get your point but don't exolerate people just because they was a minor at the time.

Dangerous territory.
 
astro said:
No IMO he definitely should face action, but that action should take into account the fact that he was a kid. If the FA does genuinely care about equality then it has to send a clear message that Holgate's public posts were unacceptable, but can also accept that Holgate was probably reflecting the opinions of his peers rather than being 100% to blame as an individual, so a reduced punishment such as no ban but a course on responsible social media or participation in some outreach.
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I agree on that actually, what I mean is no lengthy ban or something over the top like that.
 
astro said:
Why would you ever be sure of what someone speaking a language you don't understand said what you think they said? If he's just genuinely that ******ed then fine he also has to accept that his belligerence makes him appear as a liar.
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Do you honestly think that after years in Germany in a multi-lingual dressing room and further years in England in a multi-lingual dressing that the only words Firmino ever uses are Portuguese?
How do you think he communicates with his team mates and manager in training and on the pitch.
 
Diego said:
Do you honestly think that after years in Germany in a multi-lingual dressing room and further years in England in a multi-lingual dressing that the only words Firmino ever uses are Portuguese?
How do you think he communicates with his team mates and manager in training and on the pitch.
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What does that have to do with bobby insulting Holgate on the pitch in a language we assume Holgate doesn't understand?
 
Diego said:
What overwhelming evidence?
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Of the 12 "witnesses" that gave evidence, the ref, the linesmen and the 4th official(all mic'd up), the 5 Everton players and the 3 Liverpool players, none heard Firmino say the word Holgate said he'd heard.

I'd say that was rather overwhelming evidence that Firmino never said it, so why wouldn't you?
 
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Diego said:
Do you honestly think that after years in Germany in a multi-lingual dressing room and further years in England in a multi-lingual dressing that the only words Firmino ever uses are Portuguese?
How do you think he communicates with his team mates and manager in training and on the pitch.
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So you're desperately clinging to the possibility that Firmino said something racially offensive that Holgate with 14 U21 international appearances could understand but that 12 other international footballers/officials couldn't?
 
Diego said:
That is what it has to do with it.
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Does Holgate understand Portuguese?

If he doesn't, why did he accuse bobby of being racist when he wouldn't know what was being said to him?

At no point did he say I think he may have been racist towards me but can't be sure. He accused him of it.
 
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