Holgate and Firmino incident !

[Ivan Dobsky]

you are right but the political situation is the fa can't punish the perceived victim.

But, and in answer to Tobes too, who iis the 'perceived victim' here? Who is being 'Victim blamed'? If the claims are proved to be bogus, then I maintain Bobby is the victim on two counts: he was violently and dangerously assaulted, and then he was accused of a vile act so that the perpetrator could avoid punishment. There is no middle ground.

 

[jenners04]

But, and in answer to Tobes too, who iis the 'perceived victim' here? Who is being 'Victim blamed'? If the claims are proved to be bogus, then I maintain Bobby is the victim on two counts: he was violently and dangerously assaulted, and then he was accused of a vile act so that the perpetrator could avoid punishment. There is no middle ground.

Sadly that point seems lost on a few on here.

 

[Peej]

not a chance - if nothing else the reaction was clearly instantaneous and seriously pissed off.

I am still unsure what happened. But from calm to crazy seems he thinks something was said. If it was a misunderstanding, I hope so, that it was resolved at HT, I hope so. But some here believe it was a thing done to escape punishment for a push.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

You’re off you’re ****ing tits

And you are being wilfully naïve, at best. Study the video again Tobes, and at just what point does Holgate decide he's been racially abused? At a point that any player just about to be carded realises the ref is about to turn to him, undoubtedly. An act to deliberately get Bobby trouble? No, of course not. An act to get himself out of trouble and to hell with what happens to Bobby? Most ****ing definitely.

 

[jenners04]

I am still unsure what happened. But from calm to crazy seems he thinks something was said. If it was a misunderstanding, I hope so, that it was resolved at HT, I hope so. But some here believe it was a thing done to escape punishment for a push.

I was led to believe it was dealt with at HT and was a simple misunderstanding.

I don't know if true but the media certainly have an agenda here for keeping it going.

 

[Peej]

And you are being wilfully naïve, at best. Study the video again Tobes, and at just what point does Holgate decide he's been racially abused? At a point that any player just about to be carded realises the ref is about to turn to him, undoubtedly. An act to deliberately get Bobby trouble? No, of course not. An act to get himself out of trouble and to hell with what happens to Bobby? Most ****ing definitely.

You going on video evidence only? Or the bit where Kenny blocks the camera view, the point Mason goes mad?

You seem intent on it because my I he race card played. Let’s see what the report says.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I am still unsure what happened. But from calm to crazy seems he thinks something was said. If it was a misunderstanding, I hope so, that it was resolved at HT, I hope so. But some here believe it was a thing done to escape punishment for a push.

To escape punishment for a calculated act of violence that could easily have seriously injured an opponent. It wasn't a Lovren push - the kid knew exactly what he doing in a fit of pique as Bobby was shielding the ball from him after he'd lost control of it. HE was 'off his tits', to borrow Tobes' phrase.

 

[Peej]

I was led to believe it was dealt with at HT and was a simple misunderstanding.

I don't know if true but the media certainly have an agenda here for keeping it going.

The HT thing is press rumours. If it was sorted then a joint press conference with them shaking hands would be a good way to end. Then you can all go on about how Holgate should be hung for pushing.

 

[Peej]

To escape punishment for a calculated act of violence that could easily have seriously injured an opponent. It wasn't a Lovren push - the kid knew exactly what he doing in a fit of pique as Bobby was shielding the ball from him after he'd lost control of it. HE was 'off his tits', to borrow Tobes' phrase.

Off his tits enough to pull the premeditated race card?

 

[Peej]

To escape punishment for a calculated act of violence that could easily have seriously injured an opponent. It wasn't a Lovren push - the kid knew exactly what he doing in a fit of pique as Bobby was shielding the ball from him after he'd lost control of it. HE was 'off his tits', to borrow Tobes' phrase.

So, if you get in, shield the ball and slow down to draw a push.....it’s a foul?

 

[jenners04]

The HT thing is press rumours. If it was sorted then a joint press conference with them shaking hands would be a good way to end. Then you can all go on about how Holgate should be hung for pushing.

Or you lot can go on about how he shouldn't be punished as it wasn't malicious lol.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

You going on video evidence only? Or the bit where Kenny blocks the camera view, the point Mason goes mad?

You seem intent on it because my I he race card played. Let’s see what the report says.

I'm going on the evidence available so far. Remember, Suarez was condemned for repeating a word repeatedly after that which he had admitted even though there was not one iota of evidence to support that claim. You're doing the same thing now - Bobby must have done something we didn't see or hear for Holgate to react like that. The deck is being loaded again.

 

[Bumps]

Im not wrong...You have named one incident and thats against a copper...How many more incidents of racism against white people have you heard of?

Little or none would probably be the answer as its simply ignored most of the time yet you call a black person a ****** theres a national outcry...

Take the meat off the bone and brexit was mainly about getting "Immigrants" or "Them" (not all black) out of our country 52% of our country voted for that...
Most of the nation are racists in one way or another...
I dont condone calling racist names btw and no i didnt vote out either...

People are hypocrites - users on this site are hypocrites (some)
It is fine for the majority of you to refer to Sam as Fat Sam and you see nothing wrong with it

I have dealt with obese people all my life and it is every bit as psychologically damaging as racism. Mainly young teen girls are badly effected and regularly choose to end there own lives over it.

I had a friend back in Burnley who was harassed over being ginger for 19 years who sadly eventually took his own life.

Bullying takes all forms

yet in society somehow it is deemed acceptable to allow some forms

Some appear to being saying that the violent act which has lead to this debate is fine - just a red card suffices. - wrong if we are being EQUAL.

What holgate did has been made worse by firmino s reaction however that does not mean he should be let off

Nobody is perfect holgate has been allowed to let his misdemeanours go from when he was 15.

If we are clamping down it all has to be equal
Same in the Suarez situation, you can’t start a fight then throw in the race card (not saying that has been done here as I don’t know)

Interestingly recently in America a group of children have been expelled from a school for singing along to a black rappers song. The lyrics included the ‘n’ word as apparently that is acceptable but it was not acceptable for white/Hispanic/Chinese/Muslim/Jewish person to sing along.

Just in the same way that evra - who played the race card was found to have used the word himself after swearing he found the word abhorrent.

As in the last situation the media have blown everything up and the best bit this time is no ones knows if anything was said at all - it is all guess work

That is priceless

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I would assume that's reasonable to think.

there's just 2 words or so not accounted for. surely someone has some angle on it.
it happened very quick and ref for me is surrounded so im sure he will say he doesnt know whats said. thats his out, along with the follow up.

I am at this point assuming firmino will get 3 games for violent conduct and foul and abusive language.

I think holgate will get off scot free as I reckon ref was only giving yellow max before incident.

it's the rest then... if firmino is given more there has to be some evidence of the words said as it's implausible that he switched to English and shouted what holgate said

I’m still not sure if you’re wumming or being serious about the 3 game ban for violent conduct.

If its a wum, it’s a bit dull now
id you’re serious then I worry about you mito.

 

[jenners04]

So, if you get in, shield the ball and slow down to draw a push.....it’s a foul?

From what I have seen given now days yes.

It's a load of bollocks but seen it given.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

So, if you get in, shield the ball and slow down to draw a push.....it’s a foul?

he was shielding the ball out of play because Holgate touched it last. Keep up.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I’m still not sure if you’re wumming or being serious about the 3 game ban for violent conduct.

If its a wum, it’s a bit dull now
id you’re serious then I worry about you mito.

No tbh it's just a low opinion of the fa and what they do to take the easy option and be seen to do something.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

From what I have seen given now days yes.

It's a load of bollocks but seen it given.

Absolutely.

It's very clear that when the ball goes out holgate shoves firmino hard out of petulance.

The lad is a thick ****. That's not in question but now the media and the story is he is just the victim. I really don't think his shove will be punished, the da just won't for fear of being accused of supporting racism.

Not that there was any.

 

[Bumps]

I'm not saying that either: I'm saying he made it up to get himself out of trouble, and to **** with what happens to Bobby. Or Bobby said something and needs sacking. There is no middle ground.

I think the middle ground is that it was a misunderstanding. Hopefully all will out soon

 

[Bumps]

can i just say as an obviously physically disabled person i do find it interesting the difference in response to using racist language and disablist language - just look round this site and in society in general and it seems pretty acceptable along with more blatant discrimination in nearly all aspects of society.

Lecture over.

Forgot to and disability but bang on solid