Match Day Thread Saints At Liversaints, November 18th, 3pm - Bleak and Awful Matchday Thread

[fatletiss]

Indeed. People claim we are more attacking, I’m not really seeing it.

Puels main downfall was Europa. If we had got out of the group stage he may well still be here. We didn’t and despite reasonable final position and cup final his failure in Europe and dull football was his undoing.

The football is approximately the same but our results are worse.

I think it is worse this season. My basis for this is that I I could see the plan under Puel albeit not as exciting as before, but there just doesn't seem to be one now.


* I will add that I have seen less games live this season, just to give some fairness to my view.

 

[Lovelocum]

This is a good point. However, put it like this - how many of the current squad are actually "Pellgrino" players? He has made three signings including a Polish defender who is an investment for the future. If you look at the number of signings made under Claude Puel's reign, it far exceeds what the current incumbent has acquired for the club.

I have a season ticket in the Chapel End so go to the home matches in the league and cup. I cannot comment on away games as I am unable to travel to them as I cannot afford the time. My point is simply to say that Pellegrino has had little time to change to squad and it is premature to judge him especially when he has had to sort out the mess he inherited.

When pochettino started how many players were ‘his’? How quickly did the performances improve?

 

[Velcro Roy]

Puel is head and shoulders above MP2 tacticallly.

Unfortunately this really isn't saying that much.

 

[fatletiss]

This is a good point. However, put it like this - how many of the current squad are actually "Pellgrino" players? He has made three signings including a Polish defender who is an investment for the future. If you look at the number of signings made under Claude Puel's reign, it far exceeds what the current incumbent has acquired for the club.

I have a season ticket in the Chapel End so go to the home matches in the league and cup. I cannot comment on away games as I am unable to travel to them as I cannot afford the time. My point is simply to say that Pellegrino has had little time to change to squad and it is premature to judge him especially when he has had to sort out the mess he inherited.

FFS Ian he had the same time Puel had at the start of the season, so why does he get a chance and Puel was hung by you on the 27th August?

Oh and Puel lost the three best players, but we can ignore that. MP2 didn't lose any 'top' players.

 

[HarryTipper]

I think it is worse this season. My basis for this is that I I could see the plan under Puel albeit not as exciting as before, but there just doesn't seem to be one now.


* I will add that I have seen less games live this season, just to give some fairness to my view.

Yep at least under Puel there seemed to be a certain plan even if the results weren't always great.
Important to note to that by this time last year we had already played 4 games in the Europa League which is something MP hasn't had to contend with.

 

[fatletiss]

When pochettino started how many players were ‘his’? How quickly did the performances improve?

And to add to his strength as a coach, how quickly did the performances drop when they knew he was off?

 

[Libby]

When pochettino started how many players were ‘his’? How quickly did the performances improve?

That doesn't happen very often though and it would be unfair to expect it to.

The thing is as many of us keep saying, at least when we were struggling under Claude you could see what the idea was and what he was working towards even when it wasn't working.

Almost a 3rd of the way into the season and I'm yet to see any evidence of a plan from MP. It just seems like he says 'Go out there, keep possession, try and score but make you don't get caught on the break!'

Then we concede and look absolutely clueless, like "****! What now?!"

 

[st_brendy]

I do accept Ian's point though about what has been inherited. Puel inherited a side who finished 6th the season before, on the back of a storming end to the season, and had European football to look forward. MP inherited a side devoid of any excitement or form.

Now MP has done nothing to change that, and it could be argued that he's actually made it worse. So this is not me defending him in anyway. I guess it is more me not trying to sugar coat Puel's reign. For me, the board have got both appointments horrifically wrong. (And yet messing up both summer transfer windows was even worse still, which just shows how strongly I believe Les should have lost his own his job by now).

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Yep at least under Puel there seemed to be a certain plan even if the results weren't always great.
Important to note to that by this time last year we had already played 4 games in the Europa League which is something MP hasn't had to contend with.

Harry

I agree with this but , conversely, it did afford Claude Puel the opportunity to look deeper in to the squad and afford fringe players the opportunity to try previously untested players. It would be interesting to compare the number of players utilised by each manager at this particular point in the season and see who had used the most / average number of players used. does anyone know exactly how many players Pellegrino has used to date?

In his favour, Claude did use a lot of academy players and these seem to have been blocked out of late albeit there are some long term injuries amongst them .

Question for Fat Le Tiss - so there is a good chance that I have actually been to more Saints games than you this season? (Assuming you don't go to away matches. ?

 

[AshbySaint]

Apart from Koeman who clearly had a say.

Agreed. I was going to say the very same thing

 

[fatletiss]

I do accept Ian's point though about what has been inherited. Puel inherited a side who finished 6th the season before, on the back of a storming end to the season, and had European football to look forward. MP inherited a side devoid of any excitement or form.

Now MP has done nothing to change that, and it could be argued that he's actually made it worse. So this is not me defending him in anyway. I guess it is more me not trying to sugar coat Puel's reign. For me, the board have got both appointments horrifically wrong. (And yet messing up both summer transfer windows was even worse still, which just shows how strongly I believe Les should have lost his own his job by now).

Puel lost three top players from that side. That's huge.

MP2 didn't lose any.

*this isn't about bashing MP2, more trying to understand how Ian can suddenly be Mr Patient with the coach.

 

[Lovelocum]

My take; both puel and MP2 are fairy poor PL managers. So far MP2 is looking worse but he hasn’t had a full season yet.





I’m not sure if I actually want to wait until May to find out who is the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[RedandWhiteManofKent]

Whilst expecting to get beaten today, part of me felt that though we have had disappointing performances against Burnley, Brighton etc I thought the players may rise to the big occasion against a big club and show us what they have got.

Sadly not to be.

No plan, no ideas, no passion, no shots on target, no goals, no light at the end of this dark tunnel.

Ideally would love MP to turn this around and go on a good run but just can't see it.

 

[Libby]

I do accept Ian's point though about what has been inherited. Puel inherited a side who finished 6th the season before, on the back of a storming end to the season, and had European football to look forward. MP inherited a side devoid of any excitement or form.

Now MP has done nothing to change that, and it could be argued that he's actually made it worse. So this is not me defending him in anyway. I guess it is more me not trying to sugar coat Puel's reign. For me, the board have got both appointments horrifically wrong. (And yet messing up both summer transfer windows was even worse still, which just shows how strongly I believe Les should have lost his own his job by now).

Incomparable as Puel inherited that squad from a freak season minus 3 of the best 4/5 players in the squad.

Pellegrino hasn't lost any first teamers from last year.

 

[fatletiss]

.

Question for Fat Le Tiss - so there is a good chance that I have actually been to more Saints games than you this season? (Assuming you don't go to away matches. ?

@Ian Thumwood

Yes there is. I've watched a lot "live" though (not as good I agree)

Now I have answered your question, what about answering this:

How can you not give a chance to a manager who lost three top players and give up on him on 27th August, yet immediately give the next one a chance?

How many games had we played when you gave up on 27th August.

 

[Libby]

Yep at least under Puel there seemed to be a certain plan even if the results weren't always great.
Important to note to that by this time last year we had already played 4 games in the Europa League which is something MP hasn't had to contend with.

Plus an extra EFL game.

 

[fatletiss]

Plus an extra EFL game.

Which must have been pointless as it didn't get us anywhere special did it?

 

[Libby]

@Ian Thumwood

Yes there is. I've watched a lot "live" though (not as good I agree)

Now I have answered your question, what about answering this:

How can you not give a chance to a manager who lost three top players and give up on him on 27th August, yet immediately give the next one a chance?

How many games had we played when you gave up on 27th August.

No matter how many times he's asked this he won't answer... because he can't. He knows he's a hypocrite.

That comment I've pulled up was from our 3rd game of the season

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I do accept Ian's point though about what has been inherited. Puel inherited a side who finished 6th the season before, on the back of a storming end to the season, and had European football to look forward. MP inherited a side devoid of any excitement or form.

Now MP has done nothing to change that, and it could be argued that he's actually made it worse. So this is not me defending him in anyway. I guess it is more me not trying to sugar coat Puel's reign. For me, the board have got both appointments horrifically wrong. (And yet messing up both summer transfer windows was even worse still, which just shows how strongly I believe Les should have lost his own his job by now).

I can understand why the board appointed both managers as they seemed a "good fit" at the time although is they had done their homework on Claude Puel, there was a large degree of dissatisfaction amongst Lyon supporters. From those supporters I know and have discussed football with, the criticisms that they had mirrored our own experience.

In fairness to Pellegrino, he had experience of English football and was a coach alongside Benitez . You could understand why he was appointed and you might even assume he was fairly low risk. I do think that his teams have pressed more this season and I think that there have been positives. However, the alienation of the forwards remains a concern and I just feel that the current team needs refreshing. I can understand why there is dissatisfaction and I have not been pleased with some of the results / performances that I have seen, However, I don't feel the current manager is an intransigent as his predecessor and am hopeful that the second half of the season will see a transformation. Some people are arguing that Pellegrino does not have a clue but he has been dealt a poor hand. It must be extremely frustrating having talent like Boufal and Tadic who are both capable of great things but totally inconsistent. Neither manager has managed to coax the same level of performance from Tadic as Koeman.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

No matter how many times he's asked this he won't answer... because he can't. He knows he's a hypocrite.

That comment I've pulled up was from our 3rd game of the season

Why aren't you less of a hypocrite for wanting to stick with Puel but not giving Pellegrino a chance?

Shame you have to resort to being personal , Legacy. The whole point of this board is to discuss views. Shame you can't accept that some people might have a different perspective to yourself? I bet you are an armchair supporter too