Effect of Brexit
- Thread starter Davylad
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The Tories slashed public spending and those who were affected the most (due to the welfare reforms) were those at the bottom.
They reduced the headline rate of tax for the most wealthy and decreased inheritance tax for the same bracket, whilst introducing a tax on spare rooms for the most needy....
Tory Austerity was a complete myth, it was political ideology, not need, that drove the measures introduced.
Oh and btw it also completely failed, as they increased the National debt by over £700BN from 2010 to the last election. Which is over £150BN more than Labour increased it by in 13 years - which included bailing out the banks in 2008.
I find it deeply saddening to see the country unable to appreciate it is no longer a power that the rest of the world wants to be closely associated with. If you read back to the days of Thatcher you will find that she didn't realize until it was too late that by placing an over reliance on the services sector at the expense of manufacturing the economy was at risk. Her downfall came about through trying to increase revenue with the poll tax, something that brought the people most affected out onto the streets. She could have taken a multitude of different actions, but was afraid to ask the money men for more. Nothing much has changed. The country still has dreadful productivity from a small manufacturing base. How you can blame this imbalance on other countries shows that people are just not in touch with reality. It is so easy to whip up feelings in people that the world owes us something and because these other countries are managing the changing world better than us, we can just shout louder and tell them they should listen to us. We have always known best, just look at how successful our Empire was. Very sad.
Together with the EU we could have worked to improve the world, it is not all about trade. On our own, with a failing economy since we said we would go it alone, our traditional influence for common sense and fair play is fading fast. Who will we be able to blame for our failings next?
Together with the EU we could have worked to improve the world, it is not all about trade. On our own, with a failing economy since we said we would go it alone, our traditional influence for common sense and fair play is fading fast. Who will we be able to blame for our failings next?
Thatcher was the most popular and successful PM since Winston Churchill. Her reforms saved the UK from near anarchy at the time and none have ever been reversed even through Blair's long period in government. There were many good points about the poll tax, working out the ability to pay in each household.
The 'money men' is a fictitious group who the left always target. The highest earners now in the UK pay more tax than they ever did. Corporation tax has been lowered leading to a larger take because more foreign investors understand the UK is a good place to do business, the opposite is not very far away!! The UK has enjoyed years of superior growth to most of the rest of the EU, this will resume once Brexit has been completed and the uncertainty has gone. It will not be long before Euroland's underlining problems resurface, without fiscal uniformity it is bound to fail.
The 'money men' is a fictitious group who the left always target. The highest earners now in the UK pay more tax than they ever did. Corporation tax has been lowered leading to a larger take because more foreign investors understand the UK is a good place to do business, the opposite is not very far away!! The UK has enjoyed years of superior growth to most of the rest of the EU, this will resume once Brexit has been completed and the uncertainty has gone. It will not be long before Euroland's underlining problems resurface, without fiscal uniformity it is bound to fail.
That's probably the most stupid political comment I've seen on here.....the poll tax literally took cash from the poor and gave it to the rich......Thatcher decimated our entire manufacturing base, whilst on her crusade to crush the Unions, industry was merely collateral damage as far as that witch was concerned.
Same goes for our mining and steel industry.
The highest earners now pay more tax as they're earning vastly more money ffs! Meanwhile the pay gap widens every year......
We live in a land where we've got working people relying on foodbanks, millions in fuel and housing poverty and yet we're supposed to be the 5th wealthiest nation on the planet. Rule Britannia.
There was logic in houses with several earners should contribute their fair share towards the cost of services. The UK manufacturing was in decline well before Thatcher came to power. Thankfully she did crush the Moscow sponsored union leaders who were hell bent on ruining what was left on our industries. Scargill did more damage to the coal industry than anybody. In Hertfordshire the pubs and clubs are full, there seems to be plenty of money to waste on gambling. You have to wonder if some of those that 'rely' on food banks have their spending priorities in the correct order.
Yes you could argue that those who use services should pay towards using them if they have the money, but the Poll Tax was one of the most politically inept pieces of legislation ever put forward. You don't often have the people taking to the streets in the numbers that they did to realize how badly wrong it all went. Thatcher had been warned by her Ministers, but by then she wasn't listening to anyone. Talking to my brother-in-law in Hertfordshire today he told me that his business is starting to feel the effects of Brexit. He buys all his stock from the EU, there is no one in the UK anymore who makes it. Prices have gone up, and his customers are not always prepared to pay the extra amount. There is little or no evidence to show that things will change over the next 4-5 years. He has looked at other markets, but for his specialized items he cannot buy cheaper from elsewhere.
What you will find if products are too expensive or unavailable from the EU somebody in the UK will create a business to fill the vacuum. The UK's excellent business friendly environment and flexible workforce are the best at this in Europe. A recent example is Chinese goods costing more due to Sterling's devaluation and wage rises. This makes the manuafacture in the UK much more viable, especially those goods that rely on a quick turnaround. Brexit will present many opportunities for those bright enough to seize the chance.
The logic was flawed and the effect was to make a millionaire living in a mansion with his wife pay less than a working class family with a couple of working age kids living in a 3 bed terrace.
Thatcher watched on as our manufacturing industry burned to the ground, when much of it could have been saved with Govt intervention, but 'market forces' was their get out for allowing vast swathes of industry in our major towns and cities die on their arse, and leave behind pockets of severe deprivation that still exist today.
Scargill was a tosser, but she went on to crush the coal industry out of spite.
Hertfordshire
hardly the sort of poverty stricken area that I was referring to. Your local being full is hardly countering my argument....
That's simplistic rhetoric though. So for example, you're importing specialist engineered pieces from Eastern Europe and the price now risen due to the tanked pound (rejoice the tanked pound) and your assumption is that a UK company could now pop up and fulfil this need...which ignores a whole raft of variables, most notably the fact that they might want to export to the EU themselves in order to survive in a niche market..................
The UK's productivity is amongst the worst in the G7 and 18% lower than the average btw i.e. crap
The logic was flawed and the effect was to make a millionaire living in a mansion with his wife pay less than a working class family with a couple of working age kids living in a 3 bed terrace.
Thatcher watched on as our manufacturing industry burned to the ground, when much of it could have been saved with Govt intervention, but 'market forces' was their get out for allowing vast swathes of industry in our major towns and cities die on their arse, and leave behind pockets of severe deprivation that still exist today.
Scargill was a tosser, but she went on to crush the coal industry out of spite.
Hertfordshire
Government intervention in industries failed miserably as British Leyland adequately highlighted. The government was ploughing millions in only for Red Robbo and his fellow wreckers to do their worse. The UK coal industry died because it was uncompetitive, not able to match much cheaper foreign imports. The later attempts to make it viable using the best mines also ended in failure.
There are much more deprived areas than Hertfordshire, that is obvious. We all know families that cannot manage their finances whatever they earn. Instead of spending their resources on sensible things like rent / mortgage, food, heating, kids etc it is spent on booze, gambling, tattoos, nail bars / hairdressing etc. In the UK there is a 'must have now' culture without much concern about affordability.
The UK will be doing many tariff free deals around the world. It will be enable UK companies to source components cheaper than from the EU.
The Unions played their part and they did need bringing into line, however, there was a reasoned argument that investing in retooling to increase productivity would have helped saved not only that company but the same principle applied across many sectors. They never took a holistic view, if 1m jobs are lost to the economy then it costs the State £X to fund the cost of benefits (and that's before you start factoring in the social cost of mass unemployment and the deprivation that it brings to entire communities). If that same money was invested into infrastructure improvements then who knows how much of our manufacturing industry could have been saved back then.
We're now reliant on largely foreign owned companies being enticed to our shores to service not only our market but the EU. Add in tariffs and customs delays, not only for completed product, but for the flow of components and we're not looking such a good bet......
Ironic that you mention cheap imports damaging UK based business back then btw, seeing as our future 'utopia' is supposedly to open our doors to any nation who'll consider it via 'exciting' new trade agreements, that'll allow the country to be overrun with cheap imports of dubious quality..........
As for poverty, I would suggest that your experience in Hertfordshire doesn't maybe give you the insight into to what it genuinely looks like, for those who aren't getting their nails painted...........
The western world has done extremely well by the importation of much cheaper goods from China, it has brought the cost of living down enormously. Of course the downside is many of the manufacturing jobs have been lost. The UK has been one of the more successful countries in replacing these lost manufacturing by jobs in the service sector. The government quite rightly is now attempting to balance the economy away from the service sector.
I do fortunately, and I mean fortunately, have experienced running a family unit on very little money. Back in the 60's we didn't call it 'poverty' it was just normal to function on very little money. What we did have was a responsible sense of only spending what we could afford. Of course it was easier then with no easy credit, credit cards etc. I suspect dinner out once a year was the accepted norm in those days.
Pleased to see that reality is kicking in and Davis confirmed in the commons that the UK will be paying into the EU after 2019. Looks as if we are prepared to pay for access. Redwood looked horrified.
Bring on the next one
Funny to think of Cameron having once said to Corbyn in the house ''For heaven's sake man go'' yet Cameron went first, and now perhaps May - will Corbyn outlast 3 Tory leaders ? This is called 'Strong and stable government' 