I appreciate all points of view on this subject. I don't believe there should be another referendum. But for me personally it seems a lot more complex than a simple in or out otherwise there would be no need for any negotiations what so ever.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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who says no deals can be madeWe cannot make any deals until we exit. Although they are making deals without letting the EU know....
someone should have deals ready to go as soon as the brexit talks are done
we can sort you out with milk
wine
bar staff
We've got all those things here already. And it seems like we don't even need your rugby players now, as they can only draw with a scratch team.
Why stick at twice? How about the best of three, or five? There's no material new information since June 2016. The fact that you think the Tory ministers are crap, doesn't qualify, Stan
He didn't say he wanted to deal with it. He said he would deal with it, and now he's reneging. He should apologise
I don't recall May apologising for any of her U-turns, or Leave campaigners apologising for their downright lies.
Corbyn lied to students and ex students to get an advantage just before a general election. Perhaps he feels no responsibility to them.
New information:
£ deflated by 15-20% (depending on the currency) just on the vote, not the deal
Inflation in May 2016 0.3%, inflation 2.7%, a 900% increase, in May 2017. That's just on the prospect of Brexit, not Brexit.
House price increase May 2016 8.1%, house price increase May 2017 4.7%. Tough luck if that's your pension pot (though I don't think this is an entirely bad thing)
Average weekly earnings in the 3 months to May 2017 fell by 0.7% compared to the same period in 2016
Lowest annual retail sales growth since 2013
Unemployment is 0.5% lower at 4.5% hooray. Possible contribution is the 84,000 net fall in immigration
In public statements banking corporations have said they will be moving at least 9,000 jobs out of the UK. Before a deal is known (the potential job losses are much bigger, but not actually 'information' yet)
UK economic growth bottom of G7 May 2017, joint top 2016
Business investment sees its first decline since 2009 (and we all know what that was due to)
I could go on. All easily reversed with a simple 'we'll do a Norway". I have avoided subjective stuff.
Just seen that Jared Kushner on the telly (BBC so you won't have seen it). He looks like someone who would be shot in the back by his own troops.
JC: “First of all, we want to get rid of student fees altogether. We’ll do it as soon as we get in, and we’ll then introduce legislation to ensure that any student going from the 2017-18 academic year will not pay fees. They will pay them, but we’ll rebate them when we’ve got the legislation through – that’s fundamentally the principle behind it. Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem. And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”
Read more at http://www.nme.com/features/jeremy-...er-feature-labour-2082433#fxqYr7SfslhksBpM.99
What he is saying now is not what he said before the election which students believed and what he wanted them to believe. Students came out and voted in droves for him helping him win a few more seats that he should have. Now that they know he lies like most politicians they will stay in their digs and end the Labour mini surge.
What I posted IS what he said before the election. He said what he would do (and that was in the manifesto), and what he would like to do, which was not in the manifesto because he couldn't commit to it.
What I posted is what students believed and why they voted for him.
Your posts on here reveal you are a left loon and seem believe that whatever a Labour leader says is gospel and the sun shines out of Cor bin ass.
Try voting for a person not a party sometime.
We don't have presidential elections here pal, you've been in the US too long. How's Trump doing?
They all bloody lie every party does and they would be lying if they said they didn't. Damn liars.
...and Mrs Smithers at number 10 has lost her cat. Most of all that does not derive from Brexit. (We suffered a recession under EU membership. Let's blame the EU for that then.) Such as is, was to be expected. Brexit is a major change, after 40 years. Of course it's going to take some time to shake down.
That's your comeback?
Well, your response was so incoherent it was hard to post anything more insightful.
I wish you were wrong, Bob, but I think you are are right. We've taught them they can lie and get away with it - so they carry on. We treat politics like it's a game and (in general) support parties in the same way we'd support a team.
Brexit is just another example of how parties don't think about the effects of the change for the population - they just think how they can use it to gain political advantage over the other side. They focus on their own existence and forget there's another reason we have them in position.
Not true.
We can talk, as we are with the US and others, but we can't sign anything till we've left our EU masters and no longer need their permission.
You would have a point if other members of the EU were suffering from the same thing. But they aren't. Every single one of them has higher rates of economic growth than we do. Including Greece, Portugal, Italy etc. We are uniquely weak, because we are unique - we are the only one which is leaving the EU.
The good news is that the relative strength of other economies will be good for our cheap exports. Until we put a load of trade barriers in their way. But one day our growth will look really good, because it will be off a low, eroded base. A £1 rise on £100 worth of economic activity is a much better % than £1 on £1000. But it's still only £1. And it's less than £1 in 2015.
All this may be water off a ducks back for the privileged amongst us Goldie, like me and I'm guessing you. But it is already hurting those on lower incomes. Debt on outstanding car, personal and other loans and outstanding credit card borrowing, already high relatively, has risen by over 10% over the last year, while income has fallen behind inflation. Laugh it off as "Mrs Smithers cat" if you like, but it's a recipe for suffering, for real people, not an abstract idea or political posture.
We can't negotiate Col, we can set things up for negotiations. Even if we could enter negotiations we don't have the capacity and expertise to, because all of our negotiators are tied up in training and then in talks with our biggest (by far) trade partner, the EU. This is why we are recruiting trade negotiators from New Zealand, Canada and Australia to train British civil servants. Japan has also offered to help us.
For some reason lot of stuff on the news this morning about us importing chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef from the US if we get a deal with them. We will have to import more stuff from them if we have a trade agreement because at the moment we have a big trade surplus with the US, there is nothing in it for them unless they increase exports. Of course they could close the gap but we could still export more if we raise the overall amount of trade, which I guess would be the objective. Of course if we were part of an EU agreement with the US (being negotiated) they would have to abide by all the EU food and other standards, because simply by size of market the EU is in a much stronger negotiating position than the U.K. alone.
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