Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Are you familiar with the difference between an individual changing his mind, and trying to overturn a national, democratic vote? This is a classic EU tactic you're promulgating, Stan. Don't like the result? Make them vote again until you do.
Do you sleep in blue sheets sporting a ring of stars?
Corbyn won't want another election, because according to him, he won the first
I'm not going to get sucked into semantics about the terms "tariff-free" or "politicians", Goldie. That's an internet rabbit hole beyond belief.
I don't think asking the voters if they still feel the same way about Brexit now we're seeing how it works and what it really means to us all is overturning a vote. If they still feel the same way, they'd vote the same way. If they've changed their mind and would vote differently, why would a champion of democracy want to deny them their democratic choice to change their mind?
Then you can't back up your original statement, BD.
Even if I believed in a second referendum, which I categorically do not, there would be absolutely no point in holding it just as negotiations begin. It's nuts!
I do respect the vote, actually, Ellers. I voted and I'm happy with the way I voted and my reasons for doing so. I'm happy to be asked if I still feel the same way. I'd also be happy to be told Brexit will happen no matter what, but asked what form of Brexit we should have. The question we should have been asked in the first referendum if only Cameron hadn't been an arrogant idiot.
And, pertaining to your last point - let's not add our country to that list.
No. We had a referendum over a year ago when no-one had any idea what the potential outcomes might be other than some spurious, jingoistic, rabble-rousing nonsense that has been debunked many times over.
Arguably the only reason not to have referendum at this time this is that the clowns supposed to be in charge are still no nearer to understanding what the outcomes might be, and how it will affect our economy which, just on the threat of an exit from the EU, has the dubious distinction of being the worst performing advanced economy in the world.
If any of you really did believe in the 'will of the people' nonsense you would understand that as situations change, people are allowed to look at those changing conditions and change their minds. It's the fundamental root of a democracy ffs.
Don't individuals vote in national, democratic votes?
Apparently a democratic majority want another go at this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html
A year is nothing, when we've been a member for 40 years and negotiations to exit are just beginning. If Leavers had said before the referendum, that if they lost, they wanted another referendum in a year or two, there would have been outrage amongst Remainers.
We're leaving - 84% of voters in the election voted for parties who supported that. Those who can't live with it can join the Lib Dems who no doubt will run a campaign to rejoin when we're out.
Believe it or not, I've got better things to do than chase my tail trying to provide evidence for you that will only be dissed because you think they are marginal people or crackpots or MEPs rather than MPs or whatever. For now, on this specific point, let's just put me in the same class as people who voted to leave but wanted the Norway model afterwards - they believed it was an option and that's why they voted leave. They believed that is what they'd get. They didn't get that belief from some drug in the water - they heard it on the media from sources they believed were credible. I'm in the same boat.
Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying we should not hold a referendum to find out what sort of Brexit people actually want before we start negotiating that Brexit because it would affect the negotiations? Like, maybe, have a Brexit objective that is defined and had popular support instead of whatever Davis decides he wants (or is able) to give us?
I voted for Remain in the referendum - I voted Labour in the GE because I was voting against austerity - your statement is as blindly wrong as 'the will of the people' - politics is nuanced, unlike your argument here.
There wasn't a party that would cover all the things I believe in, so I voted for the broadest stroke, as many if not most people do - your arguments are reductionist and simplistic.
Yeah, you are right. Better hold a real referendum to get an accurate answer then.
I believe a Leaver called Farage was once quoted as saying a 52%-48% vote to Remain would not be good enough. (Please don't ask me to prove it.
)
If frustrating Brexit is as important as you imply, surely you should have put that above all else and voted for Tim Farron?
Corbyn is known to be Eurosceptic, and he and MacDonnell made it abundantly clear before the election that they would honour the referendum vote, which meant leaving the Single Market. Corbyn reconfirmed that to Marr yesterday. You voted for that policy. I can't help you...
I believe a Leaver called Farage was once quoted as saying a 52%-48% vote to Remain would not be good enough. (Please don't ask me to prove it.
Farage would have droned on about Brexit after a successful Remain vote, but none of us would have listened because the people had spoken.
Apparently it doesn't work the other way around, and there are a lot of sore losers...
We would have been laughing at Farridge. It seems the Brexiters are terrified of Remain talk and feel that it is traitorous. I can only assume that they know the majority are no longer on their side and wish to frustrate the new will of the people!
This idea that you can't ask a question twice, with more information available the second time, is truly bizarre.
The flip side of that is people cannot accept a democratic vote because they didn't get what they wanted.
I would not fear another referendum because I believe it would be leave again....(if they got on with it)