The EU debate - Part III

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Christmas Log* said:
Hi Steve,

I think we will be worse off short term it is probably true.

However, other than forecasting we can only speculate until if and when we actually do leave.

I didn't really listen in to the slanging match that occurred between both sides although was quite offended by some of the assumptions about people who voted leave as I'm sure is the same for the other side.

Immigration has never been a big issue for me for example. I have my opinions but they're not key as to my reasoning's.

I wanted to leave years ago and never actually thought we would get a referendum so when it did become an option I'd already made my mind up.

I wanted to leave for quite a few reasons - here are some of them:

1. I did not vote for our country to be run by people outside of it. We had trade agreements not sovereignty agreements as far as I'm aware. I'm not comfortable with the concept.
2. I don't like the concept of people making decisions about my life who are not easily accountable. I don't want to travel across a sea to air my feelings to a large collection of faceless groups of whom don't even have English as their first language.
3. I cant see how a large group of individuals, each with their own interests, can formulate an efficient decision making body. There are too many people in the kitchen. You cant keep everybody happy.
4. I am concerned about our role within this organisation. We're not liked abroad and I cannot get the feeling that we're being pacified by being part of the body which by evidence is probably not true but that's my gut feeling.
5. I don't buy the whole - "they'll just stop trading". Not they wont. Money talks. They will trade with us because they also benefit. The deal will just probably not be as good whilst we have avenues to trade elsewhere which were otherwise not available.

The man reason though is sovereignty. I don't want people not born in the UK or not nationalised telling me how to live. I didn't vote for you. Mind you own business. We're happy to trade, I'm happy to share a drink and we have NATO for international conflicts but keep your beak out of my/our business.

I don't want to be like one of the other Europeans countries all under one flag and one currency.
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That's fair enough, it will be interesting to see how successful our politicians are in achieving it and the price paid.

It's true we are seen as a petulant child by the rest of Europe. Our politicians that we all voted for agreed and passed all aspects of the devolvement of sovereignty and now we have decided we don't like it.
What interests me is that we are not the only country whose population feel this way and so there was an opportunity to work with them to accept the project had gone beyond what the people of Europe currently want.

As a federalist I'd be more than happy to see us as an area within
A larger body , whether someone's first language is English doesn't matter to me as long as we understand each other and I'd rather not rely on another country the other side of an ocean for our defence. NATO is just a power projection of America.
So unlike you I would rather see our outdated parliament disbanded and power moved to regional governments represented in a EU assembly, which makes us chalk and cheese.
Voting leave / Remain hasn't changed my views but as a realist I am now only interested in the outcome being as least damaging and most beneficial as possible. At the moment it appears both the UK and EU are going to be weaker if the current path continues, the short term damage will pull national debt over 100% gdp and we will be recovering for a very long time, but I accept you see that as a price worth paying.

There is no way the EU will stop trading with us, that is nonsense. The concern is whether the cost of trade increases and whether our services sector has to go through EU companies to operate.
 
Tobes said:
So you can't name any piece of legislation that impacts on your life in a negative way, you just don't like the idea that it might, despite it not happening ever...

Sounds logical.
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Lower watt hovers, load of crap when you try to get up dog hair.
The planned lower watt kettles, that will not alter the amount of electricity used, due to thermal dynamics of boiling water
 
Custard the controller said:
Dyson are rubbish, they alway break down, go read the reviews on them.

Do you even understand basic physics and air watts, I guess not. Go back to sleeps
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I reckon these 2 blokes, might know a bit more about it than some skinhead from Brum in fairness

Dr Kevin Lane, from Oxford University's Environmental Change Institute, said that this is a myth – he argued that the least powerful models could be just as effective.
"Consumers will not have to use their new vacuum cleaners noticeably longer to compensate," he said.
Dr Lane said that manufacturers would redesign their high power products to be more efficient so that they perform just as well.
"They will also be able to make a more informed choice – suppliers will be less able to put poorly performing products on to the market."
He said that it was a myth that a machine's power consumption meant more cleaning or suction power.
understandable and logical from consumer perspective, and some manufacturer marketing plays up to this – giving the impression that bigger is better."


Matthew Leach, Professor of Energy Systems at the University of Surrey, said that there was no one-to-one relationship between power consumption and effectiveness.
He said: "Some of the highest performing models available on the market such as the Dysons are not the highest power rating, and so it is possible to clean well with lower power use.
Prof Leach predicted a rapid response by manufacturers to re-design the most power hungry machines. He said: "They will bring better designs forwards which manage to have similar suction power for the lower electricity consumption, as they now have to think directly about energy use, and not just suction power in their designs."
 
luvgonzo said:
I get the feeling that this thread is now for the purpose of venting only and nobody actually cares what anyone says.
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I don't know what gave you that idea?

I think Pete might have died, as we've had no Daily Nazi updates for a few days.
 
Tobes said:
I reckon these 2 blokes, might know a bit more about it than some skinhead from Brum in fairness

Dr Kevin Lane, from Oxford University's Environmental Change Institute, said that this is a myth – he argued that the least powerful models could be just as effective.
"Consumers will not have to use their new vacuum cleaners noticeably longer to compensate," he said.
Dr Lane said that manufacturers would redesign their high power products to be more efficient so that they perform just as well.
"They will also be able to make a more informed choice – suppliers will be less able to put poorly performing products on to the market."
He said that it was a myth that a machine's power consumption meant more cleaning or suction power.
understandable and logical from consumer perspective, and some manufacturer marketing plays up to this – giving the impression that bigger is better."


Matthew Leach, Professor of Energy Systems at the University of Surrey, said that there was no one-to-one relationship between power consumption and effectiveness.
He said: "Some of the highest performing models available on the market such as the Dysons are not the highest power rating, and so it is possible to clean well with lower power use.
Prof Leach predicted a rapid response by manufacturers to re-design the most power hungry machines. He said: "They will bring better designs forwards which manage to have similar suction power for the lower electricity consumption, as they now have to think directly about energy use, and not just suction power in their designs."
Click to expand...

Until you use them in real life and they take much longer, yes in time the will get better, but at the moment they are ineffective
 
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