Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I am aghast.

I mean.... this is a decision on YOUR future, YOUR life, YOUR finances... not one do you like david cameron.

These people deserve the disaster. 48% of us have to endure it.

Incidentally... IF anyone out there works for a company where you have an investment but now you know its on hold please post.

I think there will be a flood of these in the coming months

 

[Zanjinho]

The world has ended, haven't you heard?
I had a discussion with the son-in-law today about why I voted leave, he said that the country could take 10 years to stabilise and that would be the first 10 years of Ev's (my grand daughters) life was I not worried about that. I told him I thought it would be more like 5 to 7 years but even if it was 10 it was irrelevant because I was more concerned about Ev's last 60/70 years of life when she had to fend for herself.
See I worry about the future, not generations who are just starting to make their lives now and will still be in a good position to prosper in 10 years.

It's not not about one person. It's not about several people, ones you know and love our even your geographical area. It's about the long term future of the country and it's residents.

No matter how people voted, it should have been in the best interests of Great Britain in years to come, not for the immediate future.

I have three young children myself and leaving is probably going to **** things for me (moving house, mortgage, etc) and them in the short term. Nobody knows about the long term.

 

[Diego]

It's not not about one person. It's not about several people, ones you know and love our even your geographical area. It's about the long term future of the country and it's residents.

No matter how people voted, it should have been in the best interests of Great Britain in years to come, not for the immediate future.

I have three young children myself and leaving is probably going to **** things for me (moving house, mortgage, etc) and them in the short term. Nobody knows about the long term.

That is exactly my thoughts

 

[Treble]

It's not not about one person. It's not about several people, ones you know and love our even your geographical area. It's about the long term future of the country and it's residents.

No matter how people voted, it should have been in the best interests of Great Britain in years to come, not for the immediate future.

I have three young children myself and leaving is probably going to **** things for me (moving house, mortgage, etc) and them in the short term. Nobody knows about the long term.

Trouble is, if you're voting Out, then your last sentence completely contradicts your whole first paragraph.

 

[astro]

The world has ended, haven't you heard?
I had a discussion with the son-in-law today about why I voted leave, he said that the country could take 10 years to stabilise and that would be the first 10 years of Ev's (my grand daughters) life was I not worried about that. I told him I thought it would be more like 5 to 7 years but even if it was 10 it was irrelevant because I was more concerned about Ev's last 60/70 years of life when she had to fend for herself.
See I worry about the future, not generations who are just starting to make their lives now and will still be in a good position to prosper in 10 years.

It's not not about one person. It's not about several people, ones you know and love our even your geographical area. It's about the long term future of the country and it's residents.

No matter how people voted, it should have been in the best interests of Great Britain in years to come, not for the immediate future.

I have three young children myself and leaving is probably going to **** things for me (moving house, mortgage, etc) and them in the short term. Nobody knows about the long term.

I know you guys are hoping things will get better for your grand/kids but there's nothing to suggest it will.

Imagining all the suffering that's going to happen in the next years or decades will all be for some longer term reason is just like religion, imagining there's a plan.

Except you also have to believe this plan was meant to be set in motion by the likes of Farage and Johnson lying to people and taking advantage of racists.

But if we do manage to get back to the state we had 2 days ago in 10 years then that wouldn't be too bad TBF. Then the kids have "only" been robbed of a decade of growth and there are many far worse outcomes currently on the cards than that.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think in fairness a belief that the whole eu is inevitably going to implode is a reason to vote out, if out is going to insulate us so we'd end up better off than we would have if in.

I've only heard one person say this.

The rest seem to think we are going to be a utopia.

In short this is a thought that the whole continent is going so far in the ****ter than the fall from leaving is no great fear at all compared to it.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Also.... I genuinely think that one huge issue was a fundamental lack of experience with referendums.

Quite simple there have been 3 in UK, vote to join and vote to leave EU and a vote on the voting system.

Johnson was very snide when he said if in doubt vote leave. I was astounded no remain politician challenged this.

If in doubt about any referendum either don't vote or vote for status quo.

A referendum is a vote for CHANGE, if you can't be sure about the change then don't change. Quite simple. The onus is on those who want change to explain the benefits. Every leave arguement was debunked utterly. And still people voted change for poor reasons.

 

[Diego]

I know you guys are hoping things will get better for your grand/kids but there's nothing to suggest it will.

Imagining all the suffering that's going to happen in the next years or decades will all be for some longer term reason is just like religion, imagining there's a plan.

Except you also have to believe this plan was meant to be set in motion by the likes of Farage and Johnson lying to people and taking advantage of racists.

But if we do manage to get back to the state we had 2 days ago in 10 years then that wouldn't be too bad TBF. Then the kids have "only" been robbed of a decade of growth and there are many far worse outcomes currently on the cards than that.

Astro, I am old enough to remember us joining the Common Market and thought it was a great thing for many years, unfortunately the EU is now heading (at great speed) towards a federal state and there is much unrest among the residents of many of it's member states. I would rather make the break now and get a head start on forming trading partnerships with the many other country;s of the world than wait for the inevitable collapse and go in a free for all with the other 27 members.
I know you are young and worried about the now, I am quite old but still hope for another 25/30 years and am more concerned about my children (in their 30s) and grand children. Think long term not now.

Imagine your guesses might be wrong about the impact, as you say nobody knows what is going to happen, like you say, it's a bit like religion.

The reasons for some voting leave are stupid as are the reasons for some voting stay, both are based on fear of the unknown.

 

[astro]

I think in fairness a belief that the whole eu is inevitably going to implode is a reason to vote out, if out is going to insulate us so we'd end up better off than we would have if in.

I've only heard one person say this.

The rest seem to think we are going to be a utopia.

In short this is a thought that the whole continent is going so far in the ****ter than the fall from leaving is no great fear at all compared to it.

I don't agree with that reasoning. If things are going to be so bad we won't be insulated. We were far less linked with America than the EU and their economic ****ups still hurt us. We never had any power to influence America so never had a hope of avoiding it. With Europe we had the power to be involved but gave it away.

The implosion is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the moment you think you might lose you forget about the team and start looking out for yourself then yes thinks decline quickly.

My hope is the government works to make our economy broader and so more stable. I think the more likely case is the country doubles down on the financial industry which means the idea of us having control is a sick joke because our fortunes will just be wildly erratic responses to what the rest of the global economy is doing.

 

[Diego]

I think in fairness a belief that the whole eu is inevitably going to implode is a reason to vote out, if out is going to insulate us so we'd end up better off than we would have if in.

I've only heard one person say this.

The rest seem to think we are going to be a utopia.

In short this is a thought that the whole continent is going so far in the ****ter than the fall from leaving is no great fear at all compared to it.

You posted this while I was typing a reply to Astro, if you read that reply it will make it two people you have heard say it

 

[Diego]

I don't agree with that reasoning. If things are going to be so bad we won't be insulated. We were far less linked with America than the EU and their economic ****ups still hurt us. We never had any power to influence America so never had a hope of avoiding it. With Europe we had the power to be involved but gave it away.

The implosion is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the moment you think you might lose you forget about the team and start looking out for yourself then yes thinks decline quickly.

My hope is the government works to make our economy broader and so more stable. I think the more likely case is the country doubles down on the financial industry which means the idea of us having control is a sick joke because our fortunes will just be wildly erratic responses to what the rest of the global economy is doing.

That tells me you have little idea about the American led world collapse and the greed of other nations bankers buying debts who's likelihood of repayment they knew nothing about.

 

[Diego]

Sorry Astro, only read the first paragraph before posting, the last proves me wrong (that'll teach me)

 

[carlthejackal]

One of the disgraceful things about the the Brexit referendum is how Gove and Boris totally let go of any moral or ethical duty as MPs, people paid by the tax payer, not to deliberately lie to voters. It is inconceivable that they did not know that the expert warnings about the economy at least in the short term were correct yet they spoke to the camera convincingly to say the economy will improve and that these expert warnings were plain scaremongering by "desperate" people.

Plain flagrant manipulation of poorly informed people to get the result they wanted.

 

[astro]

Astro, I am old enough to remember us joining the Common Market and thought it was a great thing for many years, unfortunately the EU is now heading (at great speed) towards a federal state and there is much unrest among the residents of many of it's member states. I would rather make the break now and get a head start on forming trading partnerships with the many other country;s of the world than wait for the inevitable collapse and go in a free for all with the other 27 members.
I know you are young and worried about the now, I am quite old but still hope for another 25/30 years and am more concerned about my children (in their 30s) and grand children. Think long term not now.

Imagine your guesses might be wrong about the impact, as you say nobody knows what is going to happen, like you say, it's a bit like religion.

The reasons for some voting leave are stupid as are the reasons for some voting stay, both are based on fear of the unknown.

The unknown isn't what worries me - it's knowing what recent governments have done or tried to do, and then imagining how things would have went without Europe to keep them in check. I don't want a federal state but I would maybe prefer that to giving our own government more power.

For example the housing crisis has nothing at all to do with Europe but governments have not only refused to do anything to help but have actively made the problem even worse. So what worries me is that still happening (because no one has made any indication they want to fix it) but now I don't have the right of free movement to just go live somewhere else instead.

Also look how the government is actively trying to sabotage the NHS. Now imagine how much more quickly then can do it when not required to honour agreements to provide free emergency care to European citizens.

Look what they're trying to do to benefits with the bedroom tax, to education with forced academies, and so on...

I've never wanted us to join the single currency, and if we had a competent and compassionate government with a history of acting in the country's interests rather than the 0.1% then I might have even voted Leave, but I'm [HASHTAG]#worried[/HASHTAG] about the ****s in London even more than those in Germany etc.

 

[Diego]

One of the disgraceful things about the the Brexit referendum is how Gove and Boris totally let go of any moral or ethical duty as MPs, people paid by the tax payer, not to deliberately lie to voters. It is inconceivable that they did not know that the expert warnings about the economy at least in the short term were correct yet they spoke to the camera convincingly to say the economy will improve and that these expert warnings were plain scaremongering by "desperate" people.

Plain flagrant manipulation of poorly informed people to get the result they wanted.

Anyone who has reached voting age and still takes a politicians word on anything doesn't deserver a vote.

 

[Diego]

The unknown isn't what worries me - it's knowing what recent governments have done or tried to do, and then imagining how things would have went without Europe to keep them in check. I don't want a federal state but I would maybe prefer that to giving our own government more power.

For example the housing crisis has nothing at all to do with Europe but governments have not only refused to do anything to help but have actively made the problem even worse. So what worries me is that still happening (because no one has made any indication they want to fix it) but now I don't have the right of free movement to just go live somewhere else instead.

Also look how the government is actively trying to sabotage the NHS. Now imagine how much more quickly then can do it when not required to honour agreements to provide free emergency care to European citizens.

Look what they're trying to do to benefits with the bedroom tax, to education with forced academies, and so on...

I've never wanted us to join the single currency, and if we had a competent and compassionate government with a history of acting in the country's interests rather than the 0.1% then I might have even voted Leave, but I'm [HASHTAG]#worried[/HASHTAG] about the ****s in London even more than those in Germany etc.

I can actually agree with most of that, but that is OUR problem, who we vote into power.

 

[astro]

Even the way the referendum was proposed and organised shows to me a level of spite and bitterness from the government towards its own country.

I want my country back from them not from the Europeans.

 

[carlthejackal]

Anyone who has reached voting age and still takes a politicians word on anything doesn't deserver a vote.

You and others can make a judgement. Unfortunately some people trust implicitly politicians they like. For example, during the campaign twice as many people trusted Boris to tell the truth as those who trusted Cameron. Boris said that he was telling the truth about the economy and that if there was a downturn he'll apologise. Fat consolation to those affected and will he indeed apologise?

 

[astro]

HSBC moving from London to Paris if we leave the EEA (though we won't do that anyway since it would be total suicide)

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

HSBC moving from London to Paris if we leave the EEA (though we won't do that anyway since it would be total suicide)

So now we learn the basics of the negotiation

Why was this not made clear by remain campaign?

"The EEA comprises the 28 members of the EU, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. EEA rules allow those non-EU countries to be part of the EU's single market, as long as they allow full freedom of movement of people."

In short we must allow full free movement of eu citizens to save the banking sector.