Because every foreigner wants to rape our women, evidently. Especially the brown-ish ones that are a different religion. Don't argue, I've just seen Farage say as much in One Man And His Dog-whistle.
You know you've lost when you have to resort to smartarse replies in lieu of an actual argument. Right - we've been through all this several times and I'm not doing it again. I'm not really into confrontational argument for the sake of it. You vote your way and I'll vote mine, and on our own heads be it.
Sorry if I came over confrontational, it just seems an easy target to me, if people want out it must be because they are racists and all those that want in do so because they know exactly what will happen if we leave. Clued up brain boxes against the drunken, bigoted wayne and wayneettas. No contest really, if the remain campaigners made that clearer I am sure we wouldn't even need a vote. If this seems a little bitter it is probably because I resent being portrayed as a racist when anybody that knows me would laugh at the idea
Fair enough. Childish banter is sort of expected when we're talking about football, but on an important issue like this I think we need a bit more than that. I can understand you resenting being thought of as something you're not because of association - although I would draw a distinction between racism and xenophobia, btw. Of course I'm generalising - none of us can do anything else because we can't know everyone else's motivation. We all have to make up our minds based on a lot of guesswork. I'm sure there are those who genuinely feel we'd be better off outside, but all the high-profile arguments tend to be either highly simplistic ones about the economics of the situation (which are hotly disputed) or trying to play on people's fear of those different to themselves. I simply can't see Farage's camp motivated by anything other than a yearning for a rose-tinted "glorious" past. For my own part, I'm not very nationalistic - by that I don't mean I'm unpatriotic, just that I don't feel a nationalist competitiveness that others seem to. My extended family includes Africans and Brazilians, I have good friends (real ones- not internet or pub "friends" ) from Mexico, Poland, Canada, the U.S and half a dozen other places. I don't see people as being all that different from each other in any meaningful sense. I think many of the criticisms of the EU are fair, but that we'd be better off trying to solve them from the inside rather than turning our backs on it. I believe the evolution of global politics is one of incremental union rather than division. The past is gone and we need to move forward, not back.
The only way i see england as leading and influencing the eu is if we were more powerful than france or germany. Where there are border and different economies i cannot see the evolvement of a EU country which would be ideal for the world to go forward. I dont see england having a voice especially as we arent exactly the most liked whether thats fifa, our special status that we have "negotiated" and us not adopting the euro.
Again I apologise Saint, I guess you just got the response to many other peoples posts which was unfair to you. Thanks for the reasoned response to my rant, I will try to be a little more balanced in future .
Little englanders. Back to the empire where we took what we wanted. Thats pretty condescending on why we want out. I'm not even that patriotic and pretty much support china in the olympics and rarely england on football.
His Saint, sorry meant to reply to your earlier post...didn't mean to portray you as a "know it all" I was just asking a genuine question about specifics....what either way would mean to the normal person.... On your post above...and not just to you but to all Remain guys...I've challenge leave guys to show a constructive post Brexit future so in fairness I'll ask the following... How many Remain guys actually think we are in a position to change from within to the benefit of us? Human nature suggests we would be punished for going out but I have an uncomfortable feeling we will either be punished for putting the scare on with a referendum at all or the more integrationist countries will see UK post remain as now secured and put us in our place...basically what threat have you got now? Honestly guys I'm Undecided in that I see no constructive leave strategy but I also think the EU is fatally flawed.
Ok. I can see the way that came across so I apologise. See my reply to Diego above. The Little Englander jibe was meant to be towards certain public figures, not particular people on here. I think at every point I've tried to make a coherent argument for what I've said, and not just attack the person I was replying to. I certainly wouldn't intentionally accuse anyone of racism without due cause.
TBF Saint when even the Daily Mail does a report about extreme right infiltrating the Leave campaign with regards to getting their hands on official campaign promo material it's a point that the Leave leadership need to address. We won't get honesty unfortunately which is many different people have selfish reasons for voting either way...I've pointed out why Conglomerates would go Remain but Boris has to admit that Leave will make racists happy....except......not one of the Leave leaders is pro a "Mexican wall". They'really all on record as being pro immigration as long as it is controlled. Their problem is they know a big bloc of those that will definitely vote out are far right...they mistakenly think they have to water their pro immigration views down to pander to thus lot rather than accepting you could wear a euro flag and they'd vote out...if they honestly believe in controlled immigration...just say it...say we need it...say it's vital for the economy ...just say we would be more selective outside...it's yet again politicians thinking everyone is thick.....
My own feeling is that the whole debate has become too bogged down in specifics. Seeing pieces of the jigsaw rather than the whole picture. I'm not expert enough to say this or that particular thing will happen, only give my opinion on what I think will happen to us in general terms. The post you quoted accurately sums up my feelings on the whole thing. I feel division is a backward step in general, it tends to breed conflict, or at least open the door to it, and it's why I was against devolution in Scotland. The EU was devised in the first place as an attempt to end war in Europe, by giving nations a commonality and a means to solve their differences through non-violent means. I try to look at things from the perspective of social evolution, and as I said, I think union is the best way forward. I've been accused of being hopelessly idealistic when I've put this argument to friends. Perhaps I am, but it's what I believe.
