Match Day Thread World Cup Watch

[moreinjuredthanowen]

In some ways I'm quite attached to the idea that all nations (not just ours) should have a manager who - like the players - has some valid connection with that nation. That way their performance would be a truer reflection of that country's status.
If this is the level we're at then so be it as far as I'm concerned.
I might feel differently if I actually cared about our international standing a bit more.

If there was someone who could even organise a defence properly i might agree. The truth is our team and nation have little faith in or even understanding of defending. The concept that in a 90 minute game only 2 or 3 real chances may be created is anathema to us. We want 20 chances and lash up and down the pitch.

In the end... if you want to win you need to be able to defend properly. Same as LFC.

In the past LFC had brilliant defenders. Midfielders. They understood the game. It is my opinion that we simply don't want to understand the modern game. Even klopp doesn't seem to want to.

Its a non contact sport now. Interceptions not tackles. Shape not individual brilliance.

 

[saintanton]

If there was someone who could even organise a defence properly i might agree. The truth is our team and nation have little faith in or even understanding of defending. The concept that in a 90 minute game only 2 or 3 real chances may be created is anathema to us. We want 20 chances and lash up and down the pitch.

In the end... if you want to win you need to be able to defend properly. Same as LFC.

In the past LFC had brilliant defenders. Midfielders. They understood the game. It is my opinion that we simply don't want to understand the modern game. Even klopp doesn't seem to want to.

Its a non contact sport now. Interceptions not tackles. Shape not individual brilliance.

My point wasn't about what is best, but what properly represents the ability of the nation. The manager is the single most important element of a team, so I just think he should be a valid representative of his nation also.
I'm not a fanatic over this, just making a point.
Club football is obviously different.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

My point wasn't about what is best, but what properly represents the ability of the nation. The manager is the single most important element of a team, so I just think he should be a valid representative of his nation also.
I'm not a fanatic over this, just making a point.
Club football is obviously different.

Well.... england certainly reflect our national ability then. The number of properly trained coaches compared to other successful european countires is extremely low.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/01/football-coach-shortage-england (i am sure there are more recent articles with new numbers but point is the same)

There are NO english coahces at a high level. Fat Sam allardyce was the only one they could and he had acheived piss all.

Today:

Utd: mourinho
City: guardiola
Arsenal Wenger
Spurs Pochetino
Liverpool: klopp
Everton Koeman

and so on and so on and so on.

Only eddie howe has any standing currently as an english manager in england. Therefore there are not even choices to pick form..... hence a failed manager who england saved using under age teams (who were awful under him btw) is now england manager

 

[saintanton]

Well.... england certainly reflect our national ability then. The number of properly trained coaches compared to other successful european countires is extremely low.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/01/football-coach-shortage-england (i am sure there are more recent articles with new numbers but point is the same)

There are NO english coahces at a high level. Fat Sam allardyce was the only one they could and he had acheived piss all.

Today:

Utd: mourinho
City: guardiola
Arsenal Wenger
Spurs Pochetino
Liverpool: klopp
Everton Koeman

and so on and so on and so on.

Only eddie howe has any standing currently as an english manager in england. Therefore there are not even choices to pick form..... hence a failed manager who england saved using under age teams (who were awful under him btw) is now england manager

Perhaps the answer then is to train them better?
I repeat - club football is obviously different.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Perhaps the answer then is to train them better?
I repeat - club football is obviously different.

In general yes and over year and years. Every grass root club should have recognised coaching badges. Nobody should be allowed manage a team without one. All pro clubs should have top qualification.

Yet after all that.... We still see shelter skelter play in the prem with masses of highly qualified coaches.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

You've about 50years left... that's too long for never winning euros especially.

I'm on the back side of my 30's now and men in my family tend to die young... So 40 years... Or 20 tournaments left is generous.

I'm pretty confident saying England has a less than 1 in 20 chance in any given tournament to win and on both the European and world stage we are losing ground as time goes by.

Populationwise we're small on global scale, but decent sized in Europe. Economically, there are more countries who can afford decent training and good grass roots movements.

I'd say statistically I'm accurate in saying we're unlikely to win in next 40 years.

I'll take my glory from Hamilton not throwing away his WDC lead... not expecting any from England's football team.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'm on the back side of my 30's now and men in my family tend to die young... So 40 years... Or 20 tournaments left is generous.

I'm pretty confident saying England has a less than 1 in 20 chance in any given tournament to win and on both the European and world stage we are losing ground as time goes by.

Populationwise we're small on global scale, but decent sized in Europe. Economically, there are more countries who can afford decent training and good grass roots movements.

I'd say statistically I'm accurate in saying we're unlikely to win in next 40 years.

I'll take my glory from Hamilton not throwing away his WDC lead... not expecting any from England's football team.

There's several thing there.

1. No accounting for medical improvements.

2. Global scale comments are unfounded. If that were all that mattered China and USA would be in all finals. Germany is same size. France... Italy... etc etc.

3. Economic?? We have the money it's about will.

4. Wales can reach a semi final... England can. Look at how bad Germany were in early 2000s and how thry transformed themselves in 5 years. Anyone can do it.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

There's several thing there.

1. No accounting for medical improvements.

2. Global scale comments are unfounded. If that were all that mattered China and USA would be in all finals. Germany is same size. France... Italy... etc etc.

3. Economic?? We have the money it's about will.

4. Wales can reach a semi final... England can. Look at how bad Germany were in early 2000s and how thry transformed themselves in 5 years. Anyone can do it.

1) Life expectancy in the US has remained static for a decade.
2) Size isn't all that matters but larger population is larger pool to pick from. Very few small countries win world cups.
3) We've had an economic advantage for decades over most teams. As that economic advantage has shrunk teams like Eastern European, Asian, and African teams have become more equal with the larger footballing economies.
4) Wales even less likely to win.


I'm not saying 100% that we won't win anything. Just that we're not likely.

I suspect we'll win the Rugby World Cup again and the Cricket World Cup before I die but not expecting to win in football.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

I am not sure if Gareth Southgate can rumble with big managers in Russia. Can England players do the same in Russia?. If England fails to get
out of the group, hostile British press are going to get him the sack.?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

1) Life expectancy in the US has remained static for a decade.
2) Size isn't all that matters but larger population is larger pool to pick from. Very few small countries win world cups.
3) We've had an economic advantage for decades over most teams. As that economic advantage has shrunk teams like Eastern European, Asian, and African teams have become more equal with the larger footballing economies.
4) Wales even less likely to win.


I'm not saying 100% that we won't win anything. Just that we're not likely.

I suspect we'll win the Rugby World Cup again and the Cricket World Cup before I die but not expecting to win in football.

1. poor ****ers.

2. the population of germany is 82mil. France is 67mil. the population of england is 53mil. Is england REALLY small? I mean really? sure brazil is 200mil or so but so is USA and india and china top a bill each. who are they picking from. if you said 20mil or 10 mil like say holland is too small i'd still debate that with you.

3. We still have a massive economic advantage over all the areas you mentioned. the conditions across africa are awful.

4. Sure wales are not going to win it but to say even less likely will rile the guys up.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Wales has a further disadvantage. Football isn't necessarily the sport athletes would pursue.

India's best sportsmen focus on cricket.
The US they do grid iron or basketball.
New Zealand they play Rugby.

In Wales the top athletes prefer playing with oval balls....

... Bet you didn't know rams had oval balls.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

I do not think population is relevant that much, if a player is good enough he is old enough. Managers do not have to please people in their
selection. Too much politics is in sports these days especially football.

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

The US they do grid iron or basketball.

Please don't forget to mention tennis..

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Wales has a further disadvantage. Football isn't necessarily the sport athletes would pursue.

India's best sportsmen focus on cricket.
The US they do grid iron or basketball.
New Zealand they play Rugby.

In Wales the top athletes prefer playing with oval balls....

... Bet you didn't know rams had oval balls.

Yet new Zealand are very best at rugby out of 4.6mil. If 1 out of 10 out of English boys played rugby there would still be more to pick from... yet England are not near them.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Yet new Zealand are very best at rugby out of 4.6mil. If 1 out of 10 out of English boys played rugby there would still be more to pick from... yet England are not near them.

Because the best play football. You only play Rugby if you're not good enough (or too big) for football.

I can't remember anyone ever getting excited when it was rugby time in PE. There again, we always used to do Rugby in winter when noone wanted to be in shorts and a thin tshirt outdoors anyway. Our PE teachers were both big Rugger fans who couldn't understand why we all just wanted to do football.

 

[AndyI]

Yet new Zealand are very best at rugby out of 4.6mil. If 1 out of 10 out of English boys played rugby there would still be more to pick from... yet England are not near them.

England have far more Rugby Players than NZ but they are not picking from the entire sporting pool.

Every Kid born in NZ and those the immigrants from places like Samoa and Tonga, grow up wanting to be an All Black. It's in their DNA

Most of the people playing Rugby in England went a grammar or private school, whey they don't play football, They also have competition from RL in the north of England. I'd love to see a breakdown of the Schools attended by the England RU team, I'd bet at least half are private schools.

As for Cricket, not many countries play it seriously. It's a very small pond!

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Brazilians learn to play football on the beach bare footed, while Africans learn to play football on the sand bare footed with little or no
encouragement :no wonder they are hard nuts to crack

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Brazilians learn to play football on the beach bare footed, while Africans learn to play football on the sand bare footed with little or no
encouragement :no wonder they are hard nuts to crack

believe it or not i hear not all Brazilians live by the beach!

But yeah the conditions some of the stars of African football have come up from are atrocious and the actions of agents moving them aorund now are really scandalous. The stories they have to tell are very enlightening.... the press don't actually ask enough about it.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

England have far more Rugby Players than NZ but they are not picking from the entire sporting pool.

Every Kid born in NZ and those the immigrants from places like Samoa and Tonga, grow up wanting to be an All Black. It's in their DNA

Most of the people playing Rugby in England went a grammar or private school, whey they don't play football, They also have competition from RL in the north of England. I'd love to see a breakdown of the Schools attended by the England RU team, I'd bet at least half are private schools.

As for Cricket, not many countries play it seriously. It's a very small pond!

that is fair.

If there's 2mil total pool of men available to new zealand including the islands as you say then realistically that number drops radically down to become a small pool. The point however i was making back to milk was these guys are the best in the world and are a small nation (albeit in a small poll of countries)

I would assume btw you are quite right about rugger bugger schools. The league is UP NORF and harder types but they are also creamed every world cup.

Small countires who are really into what they are doing OR large countries (germany) who all pull together to produce the talent can win major tournaments.

England do neither. we are big enough but don't pull together and do things half arsed.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41544951

england squad from 4 years ago compared to 2 years ago and now.

World Cup 2014........... Euro 2016
Fraser Forster (Celtic)......... Tom Heaton (Burnley)
Ben Foster (West Brom)...... Fraser Forster (Southampton)
Joe Hart (Manchester City).... Joe Hart (Manchester City)

World Cup 2014..................... Euro 2016
Leighton Baines (Everton)..... Ryan Bertrand (Southampton)
Gary Cahill (Chelsea) .............Gary Cahill (Chelsea)
Phil Jagielka (Everton)........... Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool)
Glen Johnson (Liverpool)....... Danny Rose (Tottenham)
Phil Jones (Manchester United). Chris Smalling (Manchester United)
Luke Shaw (Southampton)............ John Stones (Everton)
Chris Smalling (ManUnited)..... Kyle Walker (Tottenham)

World Cup 2014..................... Euro 2016
Ross Barkley (Everton)......... Dele Alli (Tottenham)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool).... Ross Barkley (Everton)
Jordan Henderson (Liverpool) Eric Dier (Tottenham)
Adam Lallana (Southampton). Jordan Henderson (Liverpool)
Frank Lampard (Chelsea)...... Adam Lallana (Liverpool)
James Milner (Man City)........ James Milner (Liverpool)
Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)........ Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)


World Cup 2014.....................Euro 2016
Alex Ox-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Harry Kane (Tottenham)
Rickie Lambert (Southampton) Marcus Rashford (Manchester United)
Wayne Rooney (Man United)..... Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)
Raheem Sterling (Liverpool) Raheem Sterling (Manchester City)
Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool) Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool)
Danny Welbeck (Manchester United) Jamie Vardy (Leicester)

For me looking at this ****e the best current england team is prob:

Hart
Walker Stones Cahill Rose
Dier henderson
Alli Lallana Sterling
Kane

(in some formation i don't care what)

This means:

no new CB has really emerged, no great new CM has emerged as alli is playing too far forward for club and country but harry kane is the best player to come through.