My only question would be why take Saka off because he was causing the most trouble for the French.
World Cup 2022
- Thread starter KingHotspur
- Start date
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Overreaction in my opinion, Kane played well today, slotted the first penalty and ****ed the second, he deserves stick for that but it’s not like he was nowhere to be seen today, only Saka was probably better than him - and why Southgate took him off I’ll never know, but that’s why Southgate isn’t an elite manager.
I confess to speaking from a position of ignorance. When I say I don't care much for international football, I genuinely mean it. Only watched the last half hour or so of that game as my brother had it on and I had to drop something off at his place. I haven't seen England in action at all aside from that.
So I can't comment about Kane in this particular game as a whole, only on the penalty.
But for Spurs? When has he ever taken a big game by the scruff of the neck and pushed us to victory? I could count them on one hand.
And yes, I know what your response to that will be as we have sparred over this point many a time on here. It won't change my opinion: Love Harry and Sonny to bits; neither of them have ice in their veins - the latter being far worse than the former.
Kulusevski is the one to keep an eye on. That lad's mentality is already very impressive.
Two QF games with officials who were almost criminally incompetent.
Sad indictment for a 'World Cup'...
Sad indictment for a 'World Cup'...
In big games he is always a passenger. Mentally he lost it for that second penalty and made the wrong decision in a huge moment. He’s not the stone cold killer that you need in big big games and that’s why he’s not won a trophy for his club or country
Big game as in final, or big game in general? Because you only have to look at games against Arsenal over the years or even against City at the Etihad last season to know Kane is good in big games.
In finals though? He’s not had enough chances to scuff like he did with today’s penalty. Our whole team and manager(s) get it wrong and **** the bed, Kane’s never had the chance to score for us in finals so I’ve never agreed with the idea he don’t turn up, he’s a striker and if strikers don’t get the ball in final third they won’t score.
It’s naive stick to beat him with that doesn’t really have much substance for me.
Yeah forget the fact he’s the leading scorer in NLD history, leading scorer in London derbies and has put the best teams to the sword year in year out in the Premier League.
He scored one penalty in the very same game so clearly had the stone cold killer moment there. It was a **** second one and he absolutely deserves stick for that penalty but the narrative of him not being a big game player just isn’t true. He is, he just can’t turn up in every big game, barely any player does.
Both Messi and Ronaldo have missed a number of penalties for their countries. It probably didn’t help that he’d taken one earlier. Made him do something different. Added to that was the pressure of it being in the 84th minute to equalise; it was tough.
England had loads more shots - and shots on target- you could point to anyone of those and say if that had gone in….
I think England players generally find the pressure of expectation hard when it comes to the crunch. But I think we’ve seen with Brazil and Portugal too, it’s not easily to replicate what you do when the pressure’s off.
Need a Ben Stokes
He’s top class dont get me wrong but when it really matters (cup finals etc) he doesn’t produce. That penalty was awful and he only missed it because of the occasion.
How many chances has he missed in cup finals?
Completely deserves stick for the second penalty, it was awful, but he’s missed three or four this season already so it’s not really the occasion that made the difference, he scored one in that very occasion.
He has played in 13 semi finals or finals in his career for club and country and has scored 3, two of them from the penalty spot.
Again, I'm not trying to beat him with a stick but it is equally naive to blame his team every time he fails to turn up in those big games. Ronaldo and Messi have won trophies playing for far worse teams than Kane has - for both club and country - so that argument only takes us so far. Yes, there is a mitigation for poor tactics, or for playing in big games when not fully fit (stupidly often I might add), but there is a reason no huge club has ever made a genuinely serious push to sign him (even City's was decidedly limp and half-hearted), whereas the likes of Bale and Modric were the subjects of relentless PR campaigns by multiple teams - and that reason, which is the same reason he will never hit the same ceiling as Messi or Ronaldo (or Lewandowski, Haaland etc.) is entirely in his head, not in the team around him.
Saying a player is on the cusp of the stratosphere occupied by a handful of the greatest players to ever grace the game is not an insult by the way. If anything it's a compliment. You have an elite group of strikers who can be counted on one hand, then Kane is almost certainly the 'best of the rest'.
In the last 10mins of a huge match at the World Cup against a big team and he missed it. Just my opinion but it was mentality tonight that made him miss.
In big matches throughout his career he is often anonymous, Tbf tonight he was involved and caused them problems but ultimately failed at the crucial moment.
If you think there wasn't a PR campaign to unsettle H, I've got a golf course with Gary Neville waiting on it to show you...
Frustrating when Mbappe was kept so quiet.
Mbappe, Griezmann & Dembele didn’t have a single shot on target between them.
Giroud ended up being the biggest threat
Upamecano was a disaster waiting to happen. Got away with it though - with help from the ref.
Mbappe, Griezmann & Dembele didn’t have a single shot on target between them.
Giroud ended up being the biggest threat
Upamecano was a disaster waiting to happen. Got away with it though - with help from the ref.
Going to have up disagree.
When has ronaldo or messi played in inferior teams to kane (considering opposition strength as well).
As for modric and bale, they barely won anything at spurs as well so perhaps they are ****e and had zero winners mentality or maybe they had to leave your club to win something as lets face it, on paper your club arent meant to win anything. The only time this probably wasnt true and you had a chance was tje golden poch years 15/16, 16/17,
If the whole team doesn’t turn up or produce nothing for the striker to feed off then to say one player doesn’t turn up in big games is definitely a stick to beat with. Just look at Lewandowski at the World Cup, he was “awful” by your standards but realistically he had zero service in that Polish side. He missed a pen, then scored from a defensive error and then scored a pen.
You honestly think Kane’s played in better teams than Messi and Ronaldo? Sorry CK that is wild, truly wild. Even our 2017 side under Poch wasn’t a match for Barca or Madrid over a 38-50 game season. As for England, I don’t think we’ve ever really been better than Argentina, Portugal possibly but there’d be arguments for and against.
He’s never gotten the big move for two relatively obvious reasons for me:
Daniel Levy
The lack of need elsewhere
Levy would’ve demanded an Mbappe-esque fee for Prime Kane, he was the academy graduate poster boy that meant everything to the club, he even supposedly wanted £150m+ for Kane the summer before last where we could say Kane was beyond his prime.
Then look at the strikers at other teams during Kane’s career and you’ll see why there was never a huge need for him:
Utd - Rooney then spunked on Lukaku.
Chelsea - We don’t do business with them.
City - Aguero, how Haaland having failed to get Kane in the 2021 summer.
Bayern - Lewandowski (who are now linked with Kane).
Paris - Cavani and now have Mbappe leading the line.
Madrid - Benzema
Barca - Suarez and now Lewandowski.
Juve - Wouldn't have had the money.
Pool - Same as Juve.
Where could Kane have realistically gone too? Now that Bayern need a Lewandowski replacement, Kane is the one at the front of their list according to reports. It was different for Modric and Bale back then as there was more scope and spots available at bigger clubs, they also “never done it for us in big games” either.
Thought we were unlucky tonight. One of the best matches of the tournament between 2 good team but refereed by an incompetent idiot. Saka was fantastic, Kane very good and every one else played there part. Both sides had spells in the ascendency, but Hugo made more saves than Pickford. Not that many clear cut chances but plenty of good football.
Easy with hindsight but I thought Harry would miss the 2nd pen, and wish he had handed it over to Saka.
We come back with our heads held high and I am now hoping for a Croatia v Morocco final.
I hope Southgate stays on as I see no one else to take over, but he needs to retire a couple of players, though most of these players should still be in with a chance of going to the next Euros.
Easy with hindsight but I thought Harry would miss the 2nd pen, and wish he had handed it over to Saka.
We come back with our heads held high and I am now hoping for a Croatia v Morocco final.
I hope Southgate stays on as I see no one else to take over, but he needs to retire a couple of players, though most of these players should still be in with a chance of going to the next Euros.