Woodyer......

donga darko said:
Behave! He was faster even than Rashford at that age, and his finishing was totally in the same category as Rush. Indeed, you may as well say Rush was limited if that is the yardstick. His first hamstring pull, against Spurs @ 2000, if I remember rightly, slowed him down slightly, but by 2003 he, not Gerrard, was our plan A, B and Z: Houllier was just basically wellying the ball up for him to chase.

I remember going to a 'Boro away game in 2002: we played 4-5-1 against a mediocre 'Boro team, and Murphy didn't let them kick the ball for 40 minutes. Yet despite our total dominance, we insisted on playing Heskey on the left of midfield with Owen up against the then top Prem centre-back pairing of Southgate and Eghiogh (sp), pumping long high balls up for him. And so went Owen's last seasons.

By time he was sold though, injuries and strains were already taking their toll - Real didn't get anything like the player of even the 2002 WC, never mind the mini-treble side. He did shaft us, but he did want to come back to us: it was Rafa who (rightly) wouldn't pay £18m to match Newcastle's bid for a player sold twelve months earlier £8.5m. By all accounts, Owen was heartbroken. But he didn't shaft us as completely as McManaman, and the other Chuckle Brother who always gets an easy ride with fans - Fowler, pissed and snorted his talent up the wall until Houllier had to sell him to a gullible Leeds. And yet, Fowler is still some 'God' to the fans.

Michael Owen won us an FA Cup final, single-handed, against a far superior Arsenal side. Anyone who'd met both young men (Fowler) during their prime playing years would tell you which one was most suited to be an 'ambassador' for any club. I wonder if, in '88, had Rushie not come back from Juventus to us because we wouldn't match, say Spurs' valuation, would we have vilified him like Owen? And even when Owen signed for Ferguson it was AFTER we'd passed on the option (hystericl, when you think we'd taken back a two-stone overweight Fowler, but never mind). The man is a Liverpool legend - every bit and more than Alonso or Gary Mac, both players I adore. I can't believe how snide and petty we've become towards him.
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FFS Why can't people read on this forum anymore? <doh>

He was a very good player, but he wasn't exactly versatile. The injuries prove that since he wasn't half the player once the pace had gone.

He had very limited abilities and drummed up a false impression that he was a trickster that could beat players because he could 'knock it and run'.

Bit like Agger had a reputation for being able to hit a long shot after scoring one shortly after arriving at Liverpool. I don't think he got another?
 
Lucaaas said:
He won the Ballon d'Or. It's useless having pace and finishing, if for example, you are Theo Walcott and don't have the movement and intelligence to match those first two attributes. Owen's timing of his runs was absolutely first class, his control of the ball at high speed was also brilliant plus his movement in tight areas meant he was always making space for himself.
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Aka; Heskey flicked it into space and he chased it

Theo would have appeared as a much better footballer in Houllier's team too [HASHTAG]#allaboutthepace[/HASHTAG]
 
Zanjinho said:
FFS Why can't people read on this forum anymore? <doh>

He was a very good player, but he wasn't exactly versatile. The injuries prove that since he wasn't half the player once the pace had gone.

He had very limited abilities and drummed up a false impression that he was a trickster that could beat players because he could 'knock it and run'.

Bit like Agger had a reputation for being able to hit a long shot after scoring one shortly after arriving at Liverpool. I don't think he got another?
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So the Michael Owen of 1998 -2004 was a one-trick pony who based his reputation on one goal? I think ****ing not.
 
donga darko said:
Behave! He was faster even than Rashford at that age, and his finishing was totally in the same category as Rush. Indeed, you may as well say Rush was limited if that is the yardstick. His first hamstring pull, against Spurs @ 2000, if I remember rightly, slowed him down slightly, but by 2003 he, not Gerrard, was our plan A, B and Z: Houllier was just basically wellying the ball up for him to chase.

I remember going to a 'Boro away game in 2002: we played 4-5-1 against a mediocre 'Boro team, and Murphy didn't let them kick the ball for 40 minutes. Yet despite our total dominance, we insisted on playing Heskey on the left of midfield with Owen up against the then top Prem centre-back pairing of Southgate and Eghiogh (sp), pumping long high balls up for him. And so went Owen's last seasons.

By time he was sold though, injuries and strains were already taking their toll - Real didn't get anything like the player of even the 2002 WC, never mind the mini-treble side. He did shaft us, but he did want to come back to us: it was Rafa who (rightly) wouldn't pay £18m to match Newcastle's bid for a player sold twelve months earlier £8.5m. By all accounts, Owen was heartbroken. But he didn't shaft us as completely as McManaman, and the other Chuckle Brother who always gets an easy ride with fans - Fowler, pissed and snorted his talent up the wall until Houllier had to sell him to a gullible Leeds. And yet, Fowler is still some 'God' to the fans.

Michael Owen won us an FA Cup final, single-handed, against a far superior Arsenal side. Anyone who'd met both young men (Fowler) during their prime playing years would tell you which one was most suited to be an 'ambassador' for any club. I wonder if, in '88, had Rushie not come back from Juventus to us because we wouldn't match, say Spurs' valuation, would we have vilified him like Owen? And even when Owen signed for Ferguson it was AFTER we'd passed on the option (hystericl, when you think we'd taken back a two-stone overweight Fowler, but never mind). The man is a Liverpool legend - every bit and more than Alonso or Gary Mac, both players I adore. I can't believe how snide and petty we've become towards him.
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I think there were 2 main reasons why Fowler was adored and Owen wasn't. Firstly because it felt to most as if Owen loved playing for England as much as Liverpool, if not that little bit more, while Fowler, much like Carra, seemed pretty indifferent to England. Also I'm guessing the fans on the Kop felt Fowler was someone they could relate to, a bit of a cheeky chappy from Toxteth. Owen by comparison was not very easy to relate to, as proven by his lack of rapport with the working class fan bases of Newcastle & Liverpool.
 
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Zanjinho said:
How have I criticised anyone for being passionate about THEIR club? There is a world of difference between loving the club you follow to hating a rival up the road.

"Others do it" isn't a answer, it's a hiding place.

End of the day, you can hate them if you want. For me, life is too short for that bullshit and I only care about Liverpool FC (in footballing terms).


PS...I'll apologise if you thought I was calling you sad by saying you should assess your life. That wasn't intended and was purely a response to you questioning my love and knowledge of Liverpool FC
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No worries, think I'll leave it there as we are simply not going to agree with each other on this <ok> <hug>
 
donga darko said:
So the Michael Owen of 1998 -2004 was a one-trick pony who based his reputation on one goal? I think ****ing not.
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Again, twisting of words <laugh>

He scored some very good goals and worked very hard on scoring more worth his left and head but it was blatantly obvious he wanted that right foot (why not, it was bloody good!).

If he was such a great all round player, why did his career stall at he suffered serious injuries resulting in a loss of pace?

IMO, if a 17yr Michael Owen doesn't have pace, none of us ever hear of him. He probably never makes it as a professional footballer [HASHTAG]#allaboutthepace[/HASHTAG]
 
Lucaaas said:
No worries, think I'll leave it there as we are simply not going to agree with each other on this <ok> <hug>
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Yeah, I was going to end the conversation myself if you responded anyway s I know I'm different to most and in a very small minority with the "hate" mentality I have.


PS... think I've started another one on Michael Owen now though <laugh>
 
Zanjinho said:
Again, twisting of words <laugh>

He scored some very good goals and worked very hard on scoring more worth his left and head but it was blatantly obvious he wanted that right foot (why not, it was bloody good!).

If he was such a great all round player, why did his career stall at he suffered serious injuries resulting in a loss of pace?

IMO, if a 17yr Michael Owen doesn't have pace, none of us ever hear of him. He probably never makes it as a professional footballer [HASHTAG]#allaboutthepace[/HASHTAG]
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Pace AND a scoring record at every level of football and age group he'd played in.
 
donga darko said:
Pace AND a scoring record at every level of football and age group he'd played in.
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And where did I say he couldn't score?


Fowler was the opposite; could do most things but severely lacked pace.

What a player we'd have had if we'd been able to combine the best attributes from Fowler & Owen
 
Zanjinho said:
Yeah, I was going to end the conversation myself if you responded anyway s I know I'm different to most and in a very small minority with the "hate" mentality I have.


PS... think I've started another one on Michael Owen now though <laugh>
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You just like being a contrarian <laugh>
 
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donga darko said:
if a 17yr Michael Owen doesn't have pace, none of us ever hear of him. He probably never makes it as a professional footballer #allaboutthepace
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And that translates as couldn't score in your book does it?

If he lacks pace, he doesn't get a fraction of the chances he scored with. Doesn't mean he can't shoot, it means he doesn't get the chance to!
 
Lucaaas said:
I could make a list of why Liverpool fans hate Man Utd, and vice versa, but I can't really be bothered because the list would be too long. I think you should read up on your history and pay closer attention to the rivalry in future, though!
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I personally don't know any Liverpool fan who would wish utd luck in any competition, ever. Ironically it's some of the 'modern day fans' who seems to do it because they aren't aware or care about the fierce rivalry.

With regard to G in particular he's just about the fairest-minded person I've encountered on here so it doesn't surprise me that he would do it and shouldn't be castigated for it... imo.
 
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When Owen said the winner he scored in the manc derby was the best goal of is career - he sealed his fate with Liverpool fans. Giving him an ambassadorial role was bizarre.
 
johnsonsbaby said:
I personally don't know any Liverpool fan who would wish utd luck in any competition, ever. Ironically it's some of the 'modern day fans' who seems to do it because they aren't aware or care about the fierce rivalry.

With regard to G in particular he's just about the fairest-minded person I've encountered on here so it doesn't surprise me that he would do it and shouldn't be castigated for it... imo.
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**** 'im.

:bandit:
 
donga darko said:
I remember going to a 'Boro away game in 2002: we played 4-5-1 against a mediocre 'Boro team, and Murphy didn't let them kick the ball for 40 minutes. Yet despite our total dominance, we insisted on playing Heskey on the left of midfield with Owen up against the then top Prem centre-back pairing of Southgate and Eghiogh (sp), pumping long high balls up for him. And so went Owen's last seasons.
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oh FFS DD did you have to dredge that bloody game up
i've been trying to forget it for nigh on 15 years now and don't think i will ever forgive Houllier for his tactics that season which ruined a brilliant start to the season.
 
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