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Wilshere

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by ToledoTrumpton, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    So apparently he has been told to "Take it or leave it" as far as the contract offer goes.

    By all accounts he has been offered a contract with a 25% pay cut, and playing incentives that would take him up to his original salary. He has so far said he will not accept it.

    Now ironically, he is injured again with a "Non-Specific knee injury".
    https://in.reuters.com/article/socc...riendly-vs-netherlands-idINKBN1GY3AW?rpc=401&

    Are we doing the right thing?

    I think the club is spot on and has it right this time.
     
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  2. blukyt

    blukyt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the club's stance on this one unfortunately.
     
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  3. white_gunner

    white_gunner Well-Known Member

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    I like jack because he likes arsenal. It’s something that isn’t common anymore in today’s mercenary world.

    I also think he’s done well to play himself back into the team.

    But I think that loan spell at Bournemouth is the most telling. He didn’t really do very well there, a place we would have expected him to show his quality.

    Club probably has it right, his injury problems are there for all to see. It’s a shame though, I really thought he was going to be our Steven Gerrard when he burst on the scene at 16.
     
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  4. goonerred

    goonerred Member

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    I'd agree with it but, we extended Per's contract when he clearly wasn't gig to play and we've had other payers being given contracts when they were sick noes. Diaby, Rosicky, Cazola.
     
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  5. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I think that's probably the difference now with Mislintat and Sanllehi in charge of negotiations. Where we used to just give contracts out like sweets, we're now being a lot more strict with them.
     
    #5
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  6. goonerred

    goonerred Member

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    Probably, and it is a good thing, we've kept injured and poor players on our books for too long, just a shame for Jack. That said,, he's played some OK games, but others, not so much. He looks good when he plays well.
     
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  7. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I hope he stays and plays his way back into regular football by staying fit. He's a proper talent, but injuries have really hampered his progress. It's the right thing for the club to do tbh. The last thing we want is another Diaby, who (through no fault of his own) basically spent 8 years in the physio room whilst we paid his wages.
     
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  8. winifred122

    winifred122 Well-Known Member

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    Agree to some extent, but I would hate to see another Van Persie situation where we nurse him back to full fitness on a fat salary, only to see him **** off somewhere else.
     
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  9. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    He'll end up at a big Club and we will be left with Elneny.

    Makes no sense but somehow typical. Arsenal fans wont value him til he leaves.
     
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  10. NLDISRED

    NLDISRED Active Member

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    I promise you all if Wilshere leaves arsenal this summer he will not be getting paid more at any other club
     
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  11. Diego

    Diego Lone Ranger

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    So you reckon he will move for less money just to get away from you?

    Good ambition from the lad, well done <applause>
     
    #11
  12. white_gunner

    white_gunner Well-Known Member

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    I disagree

    1.) he’s homegrown
    2.) he would be a free transfer
    3.) he’s a proven, English, premier league player.

    I think if someone else gets him they will give him more money just based on the fact he doesn’t command a transfer fee.
     
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  13. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what makes you so certain we'd miss him if he left. Or why you think a big club would be after him (unless it's to fill the English players quota).

    What does he actually contribute to our team? Even if you want to take his latest performances as examples, he was non-existent against CSKA Moscow - and before you argue with me on this, I have the statistics to prove it. Then he was awful when he came on as a sub against Southampton. Even in games before that, he wasn't doing much else apart from drawing fouls from hogging the ball for too long (which he shouldn't do, as he's susceptible to injuries like this and demonstrates a lack of footballing brain).

    He just doesn't look like a player who will help us reach the next level.

    He doesn't do much for us defensively, has minimal physical presence, doesn't have the stamina to fulfill a box-to-box role, creates very few chances, doesn't score, rarely assists, his passing seems to have regressed as the season has gone on...so if he's not a defensive midfielder, if he's not a playmaker, if he's not a box-to-box midfielder, if he's not an attacking midfielder...what role does he fulfill in this team? Because I am struggling to figure it out.

    I don't mind him playing in the league because we have nothing to play for (apart from maybe usurping Chelsea, who have been just as awful as us), but he shouldn't be granted a god-given right to start in the Europa. We can't afford passengers in a competition we are solely relying on to get us back to the level we aspire to be at.
     
    #13
  14. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Nail on the head. I've been saying that for years about young jack but I'm glad you boys have finally seen the light.

    A very average footballer with above average technique but no football brain,passing or physicality.

    Maybe be good for a mid table club but isn't a top 4 player
     
    #14
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  15. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    Absolute non-sense. There's been an anti- Wilshere narrative going around for far too long in the press, much like there was with Walcott (which ironically seems to have disapated now he plays for Everton). He's an exellent player and useful squad member.

    Arsene Wenger sides over the past 10-12 years have often been combated by sitting deep and counter attacking. You cant always play through these kinds of sides. Sometimes you need players who can carry the ball in tight areas as well as simply pass to feet. Wilshere gives us that. (Carzorla of course could do that too)

    He also has shown on multiple occassions this Seasons when the side is playing like **** - he still puts in a decent shift. I can think of 6-7 times this Season where Wilshere has looked like the only player giving the required level of perfortmance. He certainly doesnt deserve criticism for this Season. Ive been to the Emirates 12 times this Season watched some dismal displays but for the most part Wilshere has been one of our best performers. The guy is a gooner through and through and we always get commitment from him. Plus the local fans love him.

    If he can stay fit he's going to improve, the guy has had alot of time on the sidelines and as far as I'm concerned he's already a better player than Elneny or Xhaka.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  16. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Bear, but I think you're well wide off the mark here.

    If there is one player in our team who has been a 'Media Darling', it's Jack. How many times have you seen people say he's the solution to England's midfield, he can be the next Scholes, Gerrard et al, he can be captain of both club and country etc?

    It was only when he had a distinctly average spell at Bournemouth where people have started to alter their opinions of him. But even then, when he was playing in our Europa League group fixtures and admittedly looked a cut above the opposition, commentators and football fans alike were calling for Southgate to re-introduce him to the England squad. Despite barely playing in the league at all and taking into account the substandard opposition we faced.

    Wilshere is good at winning fouls and his dribbling is decent, but that's literally all he contributes to the team. And even when he does win fouls, how often is it because he doesn't release the ball earlier and tries to dance his way through the opposition without looking up?

    Injuries or not, we can't afford to be sentimental over a player who is now 26 years old. These are meant to be his best years and he has very little to show for i t.

    I wouldn't mind him as a squad player if he was willing to take a pay cut, but it appears he's not willing to do so. In which case, I am happy for him to leave.

    Since you're quite a big stats person, let's look at Wilshere's.

    He's played 1116 minutes in the league this season. He's attempted 1.6 tackles per game, successfully completed 0.8 tackles per game (so only 50% successful at winning a tackle basically), 0.5 interceptions per game, 0.3 clearances per game, 0.4 passes blocked per game, 0.7 shots per game, 1.2 unsuccessful touches per game, 1.2 dispossessions per game...

    To be fair, the number of fouls won, his passing and dribbling figures, as expected, are better. However, if you compare these to any of the other central midfielders he's allegedly in the same bracket as, you'll see how poorly these statistics truly reflect on him.

    I even checked his stats in the Europa and they're only mildly better than that.

    The fact he may be better than Xhaka and Elneny says absolutely nothing about how good he is and, if anything, highlights just how poor our central midfield options are at the moment. Elneny at least harries the opposition and presses very well, whilst keeping midfield ticking over. And he has more of a presence than Wilshere does in our midfield.

    So to reiterate, I'd only keep him if he's willing to accept he wouldn't be an immediate starter and is willing to take a slash in wages. Otherwise, bye bye Jack.
     
    #16
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  17. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

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    #17
  18. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    No the fact this thread exists when..
    Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny, Wellbeck and Iwobi have all performed FAR below Jack this Season just proves my point.

    Wilshere's progress has suffered from a lack of minutes on the pitch - but the more time he gets the more he will improve.

    Personally I'm a big fan of Wilshere. I would keep him ahead of 50-60% of this squad.
     
    #18
  19. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    even at the cost of paying him triple what any of those guys are getting paid?
     
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  20. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    Mustafi, and Xhaka have not performed below Wilshere.

    From a statistical perspective Mustafi is the top performing player in the entire team:
    https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/13/Show/England-Arsenal

    Xhaka is also considerably above Wilshere statistically.

    Now, your subjective opinion may differ, but you have to at least appreciate that everyone else has a much better reason to disagree than jump on the negative bandwagon. Honestly, I just don't get the negativity around either of them.

    As I have said before it is hard for that back 6 to "look good" when they are hit by wave after wave of attacks with 4 luxury players up front watching them.

    Welbeck, Iwobi, and Wilshere just don't do enough attacking-wise to merit their free-ride defensively, and the stats reflect that.
     
    #20

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