Off Topic Why you MUST vote Tory!
- Thread starter canary-dave
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Ah ready to sit back and watch this thread play host to a political squabble.
In fairness the Conservatives haven't and won't make any "real" cuts to the NHS
In fairness the Conservatives haven't and won't make any "real" cuts to the NHS
No, the Tories don't make 'real' cuts, because they're too obvious. They allocate some funding through the front door, then take it out through the back door when no one is looking. Thatcher's government was the epitome of this, allocating funding up front, then selling off hospitals to developers through the back door. The Tories' fundamental policy is 'less government', which means less welfare, less health care, less policing, less investment in infrastructure, so they can cut taxes for those with greatest wealth. Austerity is right up their street because it ligitimises cuts to all public services on an ongoing basis - which is why when the deficit is eventually eliminated, they will go on making cuts ad infinitum.
Just speaking to my American colleagues about the cost of decent health insurance in the States makes me realise the value of the NHS (for all its faults). As for the argument that private ownership ensures greater efficiency and effectiveness, America spends vastly more per capita on health than any other nation and yet they're way down the list in terms of life expectancy and many other health indicators. The middle class get screwed by insurance companies while the poor have to make do with Medicare, which is scarcely better than the health support they would get in a developing country. If we allow a small group of rich bastards to flog the NHS off and make their friends even richer, we'll never get it back.
Just to be clear mate I was been sarcastic
It is pretty appalling how they are doing it all behind closed doors. Not exactly the most transparent process of all time. People I know who have worked for the NHS for a number of years are less than happy.
Just to be clear mate I was been sarcastic
Sorry, Tipsy, your sarcasm was too subtle for me!
Complete scaremongering and a load of ol' squit, NO Government would ever dare to privatise the NHS I guarantee it. For the record I will be voting Tory because the thought of Milliband and his cronies being in No.10 fills me with dread and voting for any other party whether we like like it or not is a vote wasted. The last Labour Government nearly bankrupted this country and given the chance they'd do it again, no pain no gain. Socialism is an out-dated concept and quite simply does not work, you work hard you get to play hard. No free lunches for those who choose not to work only for the deserving who cannot. With the election looming I said to myself that I would steer clear of debating politics on here, no offence Dave but I think your OP is complete bollocks and Labour are just trying everything in the book to blacken the Tories because they don't want to admit that the current government's policies are working.
Better the devil you know IMO and the Tories are the 'best' of a bad lot
................lights blue touch paper and gets coat ..................................
Better the devil you know IMO and the Tories are the 'best' of a bad lot
................lights blue touch paper and gets coat ..................................
Unless you have Bupa or confident you will never get ill I would be very afraid of the Torys selling off our health care.
If you suffer from cancer in Staffordshire for example you may be in for nasty shock.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tisation-biggest-history-staffordshire-cancer
If you suffer from cancer in Staffordshire for example you may be in for nasty shock.
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tisation-biggest-history-staffordshire-cancer
My local MP is Tory and very approachable, if they were all like him I would be ok with a Tory government, but while we have a lying, cheating, conman bastard as a Prime Minister, anybody who votes for them deserves everything they will get over the next five years!
Nowhere near as much of 'lying, cheating, conman bastard' as a certain previous Labour PM though
If we sell our healthcare to American corporate companies they are designed to make a profit for their shareholders .
All the money we pay in tax for healthcare will be lining the pockets of very rich people that don't give a **** about caring for cancer sufferers in this instence.
The same with our train companies our electricity prisons etc etc.
Taking money from tax payers and giving it to private companies without a choice is criminal especially if the companies are not even UK owned or based.
Cameron and his chums will have lots of shares in these companies and hey presto guaranteed profit for them.
I honestly don't understand how people can't see them for what they are.
All the money we pay in tax for healthcare will be lining the pockets of very rich people that don't give a **** about caring for cancer sufferers in this instence.
The same with our train companies our electricity prisons etc etc.
Taking money from tax payers and giving it to private companies without a choice is criminal especially if the companies are not even UK owned or based.
Cameron and his chums will have lots of shares in these companies and hey presto guaranteed profit for them.
I honestly don't understand how people can't see them for what they are.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/01/tories-labour-nhs-spend-budget-election-significance
...........and that's from a left wing publication
They are all lying cheating conmen bastards but Dave's OP was specific to NHS privatisation plans.
You say this is scaremongering KIO , I have proven that it is not by linking a leaked document detailing their plans in Staffordshire .
The Cons didn't deny this they just hushed it up because 2 months before an election this would be suicide , if they get another 4 years they will sell off big chunks of the NHS .
It is not an opinion there is a link for a leaked document , if you can't be arsed to click on it and read it then you are exactly the type of person that Cameron likes.
Just as an aside and for a tiny bit of balance weren't most of the PFI initiatives that are currently going wrong set up under PM Blair? For all their faults the coalition have kept their word on the NHS and funding has been protected. For the first time ever we have a country with more over 65's than under 18's so there is going to be increasing amounts of pressure on the NHS.
I may be in a minority but whenever I have used the NHS (only ever in Norwich to be fair) I have been really impressed with the skills and dedication of the staff and the facilities they can utilise.
We could spend 100% of our GDP on the NHS and there would still be waiting lists and problems but I reckon that given the paucity of available funds the country has at its disposal that they are doing a pretty good job.
We have all got to accept that there is only so big a cake and that if the NHS gets a bigger slice then something else has to give. We cannot spend money we do not have unless we mortgage our children's future for our own needs (which arguably the baby-boomer generation have done with their nice gilt edged pensions and affordable homes in the 60's and 70's being paid for by the younger generation having to work longer to get much lower pensions and far less affordable housing).
I honestly think that people have forgotten what an economic disaster the last Labour government was. For all their faults I think that the LibDems have done a decent job in reining back the Tory right wing and we have had a pretty balanced and moderate government for the past 5 years.
I don't think that any of the parties have, as yet, supplied us with details of how they are going to fund the next 5 years so none of us can claim to have a fully clear view on our potential economic future.
What frustrates me on here is that people resort to dogma as an argument. The Tories will kill the NHS/The unions run labour etc etc. Looking at this thread there seems to be very little reasoned debate but an awful lot of political bias.
I may be in a minority but whenever I have used the NHS (only ever in Norwich to be fair) I have been really impressed with the skills and dedication of the staff and the facilities they can utilise.
We could spend 100% of our GDP on the NHS and there would still be waiting lists and problems but I reckon that given the paucity of available funds the country has at its disposal that they are doing a pretty good job.
We have all got to accept that there is only so big a cake and that if the NHS gets a bigger slice then something else has to give. We cannot spend money we do not have unless we mortgage our children's future for our own needs (which arguably the baby-boomer generation have done with their nice gilt edged pensions and affordable homes in the 60's and 70's being paid for by the younger generation having to work longer to get much lower pensions and far less affordable housing).
I honestly think that people have forgotten what an economic disaster the last Labour government was. For all their faults I think that the LibDems have done a decent job in reining back the Tory right wing and we have had a pretty balanced and moderate government for the past 5 years.
I don't think that any of the parties have, as yet, supplied us with details of how they are going to fund the next 5 years so none of us can claim to have a fully clear view on our potential economic future.
What frustrates me on here is that people resort to dogma as an argument. The Tories will kill the NHS/The unions run labour etc etc. Looking at this thread there seems to be very little reasoned debate but an awful lot of political bias.
It depends what situation you are in I suppose.
For some people Labour work better than others, for me a Conservative government makes more sense. In my lifetime when labour come in they raise tax on company owners and generally like to tax the wealthiest more than the conservative government.
As for Maggie, as I am only 34 I don't really remember much of her so can't really comment. However, Labour left the public finances in mess when they left power last time.
I have a small business that employs 14 people that does pretty well and since the conservatives came in I have employed 3 more people. From my perspective things seem to be going rather well. This filters through and has translated to 3 permanent positions in my company for staff.
Labour tend to up the tax's, borrow too much when they get in and this leaves less money to grow and employ more people. It's counter productive.
It's all about what angle you see it from. This is mine, and it is probably different to a lot of people.
For some people Labour work better than others, for me a Conservative government makes more sense. In my lifetime when labour come in they raise tax on company owners and generally like to tax the wealthiest more than the conservative government.
As for Maggie, as I am only 34 I don't really remember much of her so can't really comment. However, Labour left the public finances in mess when they left power last time.
I have a small business that employs 14 people that does pretty well and since the conservatives came in I have employed 3 more people. From my perspective things seem to be going rather well. This filters through and has translated to 3 permanent positions in my company for staff.
Labour tend to up the tax's, borrow too much when they get in and this leaves less money to grow and employ more people. It's counter productive.
It's all about what angle you see it from. This is mine, and it is probably different to a lot of people.