Who do we want to drop points tonight ?

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ToledoTrumpton said:
Please stop insulting me every post.
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Well stop making it so easy for me then, you come out with some stupid things it is fair to say.

As for Torres YES he lost form, he mis-controlled the ball too much, his shooting was off, he went to bits. Yes he did become a bad player but I knew it was a matter of time before he found form again. Could it have something to do with the style of play at Chelsea, yes, but he looked out of sorts from day one at Chelsea. I would say it was all related to form though because from day 1 he wasn't even getting the basics right.
 
most of that was caused at L'Pool. God knows what was going on - but he went from me wanting him at Arsenal, to laughing at his demise with the Chavs. He was clearly a class act - shows you how it can all go wrong. I wish him well, but hope he goes abroad again.
 
It's a bit annoying how well Cisse's done so far at Newcastle, but you can't really have a go at Arsenal for not signing him in January. As obvious as it may seem now to have signed him some players just slip through the net to other teams. You can't get them all, and sometimes you get not-so-good players like Gervinho. As for signing players in January in general, usually teams aren't really looking to sell anymore, hence the decline in transfers from recent years so it is very hard to pick up a Cisse calibre player. Although I do agree that it is really odd how no one picked up Cisse before as he's been banging in goals his entire career- maybe clubs didn't think he would be as good in the prem.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
It is like trying to debate a point with a three year old. Cisse is not a vast amount beter than Bendtner, Chamakh or Park. Everyone has this idea that the scale of players ability is soooo big and there is a gulf in class between players. It simply isn't the case, or Wigan would never be able to win a game against us, or Manchester United. There are only a very few players that are signicantly better than the average player in the premiership and talking abut Cisse as if he is on that elevated level with RVP, Ronaldo and Messi is as stupid as a bag of nuts.

Once you get past those few players that really elevate a team and all those around them, the rest are seperated by form, luck and how they fit into your system. The difference between Cisse and Bendtner in terms of ability, if there is any, could be out-weighed by whether the player playing alongside them is left or right-footed, or the usual state of their home pitch. Has anyone given any thought on how similar Cisse and Ba are in terms of style, and how different they are to any of our forwards, in terms of style?

I am sure you feel superior, saying that Cisse was an "obvious choice", and you think you are smarter because you think you are able to detect a flaw in a manager that has been managing at the top level for over 25 years. As I keep pointing out to you, the truth is that you don't have the knowledge of the game to even understand the framework of the decision, and every time you post you just show that.

As I have said before, I am reallly tired of trying to explain things to you and simply getting personal abuse back. Go ahead and insult me, it really makes no difference. I have tried to help you understand. If you want to carry on believing that you are all football geniuses and Wenger, his coaches and scouts are all fools, then have at it.

It seems obvious to me that the reverse is far more likely, but just have it your own way.
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I understand your point to a degree. I've always had this theory which is probably best displayed in simple diagrams.

Every player is capped by the physical ability of the human body and the physical ability of the human mind. Every PL player is trained at a very high standard, virtually maximising the potential of the human form. For that reason, I actually think that some players aren't as significantly better as they're made out.

Just look at ANY sport, such as sprinting. One person will always win, but the rest of the opposition are only miliseconds behind. It's not like one person is running 9 seconds whilst the rest are running in 15 seconds. I think the same thing applies to football. Just to show the range of ability in-terms of a diagram:
- A player of exceptional, world class talent
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- A fully trained 'average' Premier League player
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- A League One player
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- An amateur sunday league player
^
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- Someone who has no/little training or skill in football
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So I don't think there are HUGE gulfs in ability. It's simply that extra touch of skill, technique, class and mental agility which gives certain players that edge. The same applies in sports across the world.

This is also why I think any team is capable of beating any other team in the PL on the day with surprise results.

However, that difference exists, and its perminant, and I don't think that level can be changed. Everyone has their peak. For example, Bendtner could not try that little bit harder, squeeze out that bit more effort and be able to bang in 13 goals in 12 apps like Cisse has. Just would not happen. Similarly, I completely disagree with the idea that there could be no difference in class, or that it comes down to something as simple as playing with left or right footed players. That's just bollocks.
 
I would be more sympathetic about people's views on Cisse if exactly the same thing hadn't been said about Demba Ba a few months ago. He now hasn't scored in 12 games.

Cisse may be different, but the Newcastle team are set up to score a lot of goals through their strikers. The gamble a lot on attack and let in a lot of goals as well. Cisse may well be a player that we missed out on, but equally, he may have preferred playing first team football rather than sitting on the bench watching RVP play, or just not been that good in our system.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
I would be more sympathetic about people's views on Cisse if exactly the same thing hadn't been said about Demba Ba a few months ago. He now hasn't scored in 12 games.

Cisse may be different, but the Newcastle team are set up to score a lot of goals through their strikers. The gamble a lot on attack and let in a lot of goals as well. Cisse may well be a player that we missed out on, but equally, he may have preferred playing first team football rather than sitting on the bench watching RVP play, or just not been that good in our system.
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We gamble a lot on attack too, and also let in a lot of goals. We have for years, but it didnt help Bendtner or Chamakh. As for Ba, he has been moved away from the strker role and played wide - hence less goals. If Cisse got injured for Newcastle, he would be back up front and they would still be dangerous. If RVP got injured, we're ****ed.
 
Demba ba is not playing in the same role as he was prior to Cisse's arrival - this has been pointed out umpteen times but as usual you miss the vital valid point Toledo <doh>

Demba Ba was no flash in the pan, he scored plenty of goals for West Ham. He has still scored 16 goals this season and last season he averaged a goal every other game for West Ham and Hoffenheim.
 
Maybe we should buy them both in the summer, then we'd have RVP, Podolski, Ba and Cisse and everyone would be happy <diva>
 
PISKIE said:
Maybe we should buy them both in the summer, then we'd have RVP, Podolski, Ba and Cisse and everyone would be happy <diva>
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Or perhaps we should have bought in January and given ourselves a better chance of getting 3rd and giveing RVP some help <ok>
 
PISKIE said:
RVP hasn't needed any help since January.
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Actually RVP's goal record has fallen off since January. At the turn of the year he was averaging 0.9 goals per game (17 goals in 19 games, failing to score in 8), since then its 0.77 (11 in 17 games, failing to score in 9). We could have really done with giving him some help - especially in games where he wasnt on top form, to give us something different (Wigan, Chelsea, and QPR spring to mind most recently)
 
Maybe we should have bought Ba then, or Cisse or Ba, no wait, Cisse . . .
 
PISKIE said:
Maybe we should have bought Ba then, or Cisse or Ba, no wait, Cisse . . .
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I think we should just accept that no one is ever available if we dont sign a player, but if we do then someone was available. That way we can avoid all criticism of Wenger <whistle>
 
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