Where to from here?

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The great strength we have is that not only can we win games (as most teams can on their day), but we are very hard to play against. Letting in only 3 goals in 9 games is not a flash in the pan. We will lose games, but I bet they will be by one goal only. Our good start to the season has solid foundations.
 
Saints Alive said:
Out of the teams you have mentioned we have gained 10 points out of a possible 12....away wins at West Brom & Liverpool, home win against Swansea and an away draw at Manure...That suggests to me that we are not only competing with our rivals, we are beating them and if you had seen the complete and utter domination of Fulham (another mid table side) yesterday, 20 shots to 2...67% possession. then you might understand the optimism around our club at the moment.
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Nothing wrong with being optimistic, All I'm saying is that it's a long season and over the course of a season, teams go in and out of form, and you can't accurately predict the final table in October. Currently, I'd say you're in pole position for that eight spot, but who knows what might happen in the Premier League?

Also, Man U are a bit rubbish this season so drawing against them is hardly that great an achievement :p
 
PompeyLapras said:
Nothing wrong with being optimistic, All I'm saying is that it's a long season and over the course of a season, teams go in and out of form, and you can't accurately predict the final table in October. Currently, I'd say you're in pole position for that eight spot, but who knows what might happen in the Premier League?

Also, Man U are a bit rubbish this season so drawing against them is hardly that great an achievement :p
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You are quite right in your comments that it is very early in the season, and many observers share your view that 8th is the highest position we are likely to hold come game week 38. Some statistitions (e.g. Statto) predict that Saints will end up with something like 55 - 58 points come May.

However, more and more reliable pundits are of the opinion that Saints offer something different to the normal early season surprise packages.
 
Well even 8th would be a pretty good achievement. Personally, I think you could finish as high as 6th and if you do get into the Europa League, that is something worth celebrating. I know a lot of people are dismissive of the Europa League but I think it's a great competition: You get to play all sorts of different teams from all sorts of different countries, exotic teams you've never heard of. Compare that to Champions League where it's pretty much the same teams year in, year out, with the occasional darkhorse like Apoel Nicosia. It's also much more open than the Champions League, with lots of teams who could win it and semi-finalists which aren't a predictable snoozefest. It's like the European equivalent of the Championship. Sure there isn't so much money, but so long as we have enough money to compete and be sustainable, I don't really give a damn about money.
 
PompeyLapras said:
Well even 8th would be a pretty good achievement. Personally, I think you could finish as high as 6th and if you do get into the Europa League, that is something worth celebrating. I know a lot of people are dismissive of the Europa League but I think it's a great competition: You get to play all sorts of different teams from all sorts of different countries, exotic teams you've never heard of. Compare that to Champions League where it's pretty much the same teams year in, year out, with the occasional darkhorse like Apoel Nicosia. It's also much more open than the Champions League, with lots of teams who could win it and semi-finalists which aren't a predictable snoozefest. It's like the European equivalent of the Championship. Sure there isn't so much money, but so long as we have enough money to compete and be sustainable, I don't really give a damn about money.
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The problem with Europa is largely that it has all the demands on your depth as does the CL, but without providing any money to acquire that additional depth...unless you happen to have a squad built for challenging for the top of the league, it's a struggle to compete in both competitions.
 
Exactly Schadenfreude...without the injection of cash to support a European campaign then either don't take up the invite or play a development team for additional experience thus leaving the first team squad fresh for the push to get into the CL
 
Dark Lord SFC said:
Exactly Schadenfreude...without the injection of cash to support a European campaign then either don't take up the invite or play a development team for additional experience thus leaving the first team squad fresh for the push to get into the CL
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The problem with the Europa league is that Champions league teams get dropped into the later stages, otherwise I'd be all for it as teams involved would be of a similar level so most would treat it like the League cup is treated. But the 'big' teams mean you have to play full strength to get anywhere in it & I can't see Cortese or Poch happy with an early cup exit, so extra cash would be needed. Having said that, I can see a cash injection coming if we can stick with the top sides until the transfer window anyway. Another in the Summer is not unexpected to help us push up another level last season anyway, regardless of exact final position (assuming we're meeting or exceeding our internal targets for the team). Add another crop of academy players (hopefully) and there you suddenly have quite a bit of strength and depth over the next two transfer windows, ready for a Europa campaign.

Thank you Markus; I'm certainly walking in a Liebherr wonderland. :smile:
 
Schad said:
The problem with Europa is largely that it has all the demands on your depth as does the CL, but without providing any money to acquire that additional depth...unless you happen to have a squad built for challenging for the top of the league, it's a struggle to compete in both competitions.
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Yeah but you can afford it.
 
PompeyLapras said:
Yeah but you can afford it.
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Potentially, though we have to date opted for quality over quantity in transfer dealings...we have a very small squad. As mentioned above, having the Academy kiddies (we don't really have any other reserves) arrive ahead of schedule would make a big difference, as will gradually additions through transfer, but we're probably a year or two away from being able to throw a team comprised largely of youngsters and reserves against the lower-rated European sides with an expectation of winning.

That said, nothing would make me happier than seeing all of our 17 and 18 year olds topple a second-tier Baltic club err some such.
 
Is it down to the lake I fear?
Ay ah ah ah ah ah
Ay ah ah ah ah ah
Then I call
Ring (ring) ring (ring) ring (ring) ring (ring)
La la love plus one
 
Schad said:
The problem with Europa is largely that it has all the demands on your depth as does the CL, but without providing any money to acquire that additional depth...unless you happen to have a squad built for challenging for the top of the league, it's a struggle to compete in both competitions.
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It's a massively important point, but one that many people I know are overlooking. Our current squad simply wouldn't cope with Europe next season - but if that's CL European football (which it wont be, but hey whilst we're in the top four, lets indulge it), then that wouldn't be much of an issue. The money that CL football would bring, coupled with how attractive we would become to other players (both here and abroad), would help us enormously. I could see us coping.

But if it's the Europa league, that same level of additional income just wouldn't be there. Yes, they'd always be the possibility of Cortese getting further transfer funds from above, but it wouldn't be a certainty. Not to mention the fact that Europa league football is surely only a minor enticement to the players that we'd be looking at it. And as you also say, we seem to favour quality over quantity, so I couldn't see us going down Swansea's route, and signing a few squad fillers (seemingly on the cheap) to help us cope on both fronts.

As much as I want us to win a cup, and finish as high up in the league as possible, I can't help but feel that the Europa League would be a big hindrance on us next season.
 
I don't see why Europa is a problem. Trying to WIN Europa might be a problem, but the Europa League only taxes you if you let it.

There's no reason we can't use it to get our reserves and academy players some much-needed playing time. It would be nice to have Cork, Yoshida, Hooiveld staying sharp. We could see what Ramirez can do. Chambers, Rowe, Targett and perhaps a few others could get some experience. No different than early FA or League Cup matches. If we get tonked and crash out early, no big deal.

I would play Europa League any chance I got. Even if we qualified for CL, I would want to play Europa League AND CL. The one big potential flaw in trying to develop through the Academy is that unless you can get into the first team, it's very hard to get any games, so players just stagnate from 18-21. Barcelona has a B club, so their young players are playing 42 competitive matches a season.

If I were a player being signed for depth, I would take less money for a chance to play with Saints in that situation. At a minimum, you get to play maybe 10 or 15 Cup matches between FA, League and Europa where maybe you can show you've got what it takes for the first team. If not, at least you're still playing some fun games and maybe another team will come in for you. As opposed to being a backup now where you might get 2-3 Cup matches and a whole lot of U21 action no one cares about.

I feel like optimally, we should at least have two sides playing a real match a week. Injuries and performance will determine which match you play in, but every player as much as possible should be playing once a week.
 
Talking about Ropey League, if we got there I don't think it would quite be a case of us totally blowing it off. Clearly we would need 3-4 players more than we currently have to compete in both (plus replacing the fringe players who move on). I think Nicola would sanction that, on the basis that if we finish 6th or 5th this season (not saying we will), he will expect us to be 4th the next, so we could maintain the bigger squad size. And on the strict instruction that progressing at home is the priority over Europa.


PS they should still scrap this competition and expand the Champions League slightly to accommodate.
 
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