Where is.....

Rafman said:
He left us in top 8 form. Subliminal defensive record. Highest scoring NUFC team for years.

He has stated in various interviews the trends in coaching, has admitted that high octane, pressurised football is the way forwards and what fans want to see. Has a big range of scouting personnel around the world that he personally hires in order to follow players and coaching methods.

This response that he is a dinosaur or out of touch is ridiculous.
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He left us playing **** boring football as we'd had to watch the whole time under him. Same as every other club. He can talk all he wants, Mourinho does exactly the same. They claim they recognise football has moved on from them and they will adapt. Then they concentrate on stopping the opposition. We played defensive counter his whole time here. Same as he has everywhere else, boring the **** out of fans and sometimes players. I don't think anyone would argue the fact he is a fantastic defensive coach. He ain't gonna change now and we need to look at something more modern, something which brings excitement. He's not the man for the new regime. He'd last two years maximum and would leave us with a hell of a challenge to unpick his work. We need to think more like Man City did, with clear lines of transition between the coaches you appoint.

I don't think you can ever say he is out of touch or a dinosaur. He has never followed trends etc. He has a very unique style and his own way of doing things (which has served him well). Its why he is notoriously difficult to follow. He hasn't changed much at all since Valencia.
 
Rafman said:
Oh come on. Eddie Howe was linked with every top English side at one point and yet none of them hired him. Why is that? You can blame it on his name not being foreign ala the Sam Alardici jokes that used to do the rounds, or you could blame it on better options being available or simply put he reached his potential.

Eddie Howe did a great job getting Bournemouth as high as he did, but he was unable to take them to the next level. By the end, even his own hardcore fans had enough of him. His brand of football wasn't exciting, he did just enough every season until clubs worked him out and he couldn't do just enough anymore.

His transfers were an absolute disaster once he was able to spend real money, he bought some absolute dross for considerably more money than they were worth, that's something which would put off big clubs, its alright for smaller clubs if you have a good record for cheap buys. He kept hold of his league 1 players for far too long and should have got rid. He was just happy plodding along.

16th, 9th, 12th, 14th, 18th. Its hardly a phenomenal record. That's the kind of record people would be ripping Steve Bruce to shreds for.
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So hang on you present a set of criteria where you think that would warrant promotion to a bigger job. So I present how Eddie Howe exceeded this criteria and then you dismiss that criteria. Bottom line is at the point he finished 9th off the back of promotion from bottom to top, he should have been in prime position for a job higher up.

The big clubs don't appoint from doing well in the lower leagues in England. They don't even appoint from doing well in the championship. If you think otherwise, name a manager who has been given an opportunity in this way (the way most non ESL minded people would think it should be).
 
Warm Pouch said:
So hang on you present a set of criteria where you think that would warrant promotion to a bigger job. So I present how Eddie Howe exceeded this criteria and then you dismiss that criteria. Bottom line is at the point he finished 9th off the back of promotion from bottom to top, he should have been in prime position for a job higher up.

The big clubs don't appoint from doing well in the lower leagues in England. They don't even appoint from doing well in the championship. If you think otherwise, name a manager who has been given an opportunity in this way (the way most non ESL minded people would think it should be).
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Are you still telling us Joelinton is 100 times the player that rondon was?
 
Warm Pouch said:
So hang on you present a set of criteria where you think that would warrant promotion to a bigger job. So I present how Eddie Howe exceeded this criteria and then you dismiss that criteria. Bottom line is at the point he finished 9th off the back of promotion from bottom to top, he should have been in prime position for a job higher up.

The big clubs don't appoint from doing well in the lower leagues in England. They don't even appoint from doing well in the championship. If you think otherwise, name a manager who has been given an opportunity in this way (the way most non ESL minded people would think it should be).
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Off the back of the season where he finished 9th, yeah he could have joined a bigger club than Bournemouth, a top 10 team or an established Premier league side, but he didn't and he spent more money and results went the other way and he was relegated 2 seasons later.

His stock now is much lower and he needs to rebuild by going to a club like Celtic where he can get some titles under his belt, try his luck in Europe and then return to a top 10 premier league side in a few years.
 
Rafman said:
Off the back of the season where he finished 9th, yeah he could have joined a bigger club than Bournemouth, a top 10 team or an established Premier league side, but he didn't and he spent more money and results went the other way and he was relegated 2 seasons later.

His stock now is much lower and he needs to rebuild by going to a club like Celtic where he can get some titles under his belt, try his luck in Europe and then return to a top 10 premier league side in a few years.
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Yes and he didn't because despite plenty of top clubs having openings, they went to foreign managers, because its a bit more sexy. I can see you just completely miss the point because you have an ESL type mentality.
 
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Warm Pouch said:
He left us playing **** boring football as we'd had to watch the whole time under him. Same as every other club. He can talk all he wants, Mourinho does exactly the same. They claim they recognise football has moved on from them and they will adapt. Then they concentrate on stopping the opposition. We played defensive counter his whole time here. Same as he has everywhere else, boring the **** out of fans and sometimes players. I don't think anyone would argue the fact he is a fantastic defensive coach. He ain't gonna change now and we need to look at something more modern, something which brings excitement. He's not the man for the new regime. He'd last two years maximum and would leave us with a hell of a challenge to unpick his work. We need to think more like Man City did, with clear lines of transition between the coaches you appoint.

I don't think you can ever say he is out of touch or a dinosaur. He has never followed trends etc. He has a very unique style and his own way of doing things (which has served him well). Its why he is notoriously difficult to follow. He hasn't changed much at all since Valencia.
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If you follow his career, you will know how he operates, he plays tight organised football, where the motto is defence is the best form of attack. He does this until the club is safe from relegation or guaranteed a certain spot in the league and then he takes the shackles off.

Pardew is considered our most attacking manager in recent times and his side were only scoring a couple more goals than Rafas, but conceding 10-20 goals more. The last time we conceded less goals than under Rafa was in 2006. When we were an established Premier league side.

Yeah he is the Godfather of the 4-2-3-1 and is responsible for introducing Europe to that formation to such success.

He is far from stuck in his ways and has shown ways of adapting several times in his career, depending on the teams objectives. You call him a defensive coach, in Napoli they called him an attacking coach. In Madrid his side broke no end of attacking records until he was sacked. Chelsea were playing very attacking football under him. He broke every attacking state at Liverpool.

You say he and Mourinho are set in their ways and going younger is the way forwards. How are Ancelotti (61),Bielsa (65), Hodgson (73) doing, because I'm pretty sure they're succeeding at their current clubs.
 
Warm Pouch said:
Yes and he didn't because despite plenty of top clubs having openings, they went to foreign managers, because its a bit more sexy. I can see you just completely miss the point because you have an ESL type mentality.
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I don't have an ESL mentality. He didn't get those jobs because he wasn't good enough. I don't think foreigners are better because they're foreign, the problem lies with British coaching and the fact that former footballers get to skip badges and advance quicker than others and have guaranteed jobs waiting for them. Should Lampard have been given the Derby job, no, did he do well there, no. Should he have been given the Chelsea job, hell no, will he likely be gifted another top position, more than likely. I have friends who trained for their badges, struggled to get work, had to settle for unpaid local team jobs, before finally getting to coach youth sides for league 1 and 2 clubs and they all said that former footballers turn up to the first training session, and then don't turn up again and they somehow get rewarded their certificate and end up going straight in as League 1 or above management positions.
 
Rafman said:
I don't have an ESL mentality. He didn't get those jobs because he wasn't good enough. I don't think foreigners are better because they're foreign, the problem lies with British coaching and the fact that former footballers get to skip badges and advance quicker than others and have guaranteed jobs waiting for them. Should Lampard have been given the Derby job, no, did he do well there, no. Should he have been given the Chelsea job, hell no, will he likely be gifted another top position, more than likely. I have friends who trained for their badges, struggled to get work, had to settle for unpaid local team jobs, before finally getting to coach youth sides for league 1 and 2 clubs and they all said that former footballers turn up to the first training session, and then don't turn up again and they somehow get rewarded their certificate and end up going straight in as League 1 or above management positions.
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Massively ESL mentality. You've basically outed yourself as a bigger **** than you had already with all the Rafa guff. You can talk around it all you want. The traditional way of working your way up through the divisions has gone by the wayside. The reason for that is advent of the PL, the big 6 and ESL mentality, and a general not giving a **** about the health of the game in this country. The PL and the top 6 jobs should be the reward for home based managers who have excelled through the leagues. Outside of sentiment I can't remember the last one who got a job like that? Maybe Moyes but even that was because of his relationship with Sir Alex Ferguson.
 
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Rafman said:
Rodgers at Liverpool.
Lampard at Chelsea.
Parker at Fulham.
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I don’t think Fulham are a top 6 club <laugh>

Lampard was pure sentiment.

Rodgers yeah. 1 in how many managerial changes among them clubs?

Thank you for illustrating my point.
 
Peter Lim apparently wants Rafa back at Valencia, but it's whether he believes in the project.
 
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