What standard would the English league have without foreigners?

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Febbos

Febbos

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2011
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And how come that "you guys" are so over-confident regarding English players overall?(You=Englishmen overall)

I have always seen the English national team as overrated (And im not even sure its "rated" at all :cheesy:) Premier League would probably be pretty poor without foreigners, even though I am supporting the thought of some new rules regarding this. The league would get worse, but it would help England as a football nation in longer terms (not sure how to write that sentence).

And how come English players are so freaking expensive? Andy Carroll, 35 million £, absolute joke. David Villa didnt even cost that much when Barcelona bought him, and he is a proved goal scoring machine, with routine. Carroll has played some football in The Championship and scored a few goals in the Premier League. But he is injury prone, and has a bad attitude overall. Players like Luis Suarez, Fernando Llorente cost less.

Why, why why? :emoticon-0176-smoke
 
Firstly, I don't think that we are over confident regarding English players, aside from moronic England fans who come out of the wood work every 2 years (or 4 years if that twat McLaren is around) for a major tournament, and walk around in red england tops with rooney on the back, i'd suggest most sensible football fans have been able to see for a long while that even the best English players are not as good as a lot of their foreign counterparts. Apathy towards the England team has definitely been growing over the last 10 years as more and more people have come to realise that we are an average nation of footballers at best.

Secondly, English players cost such ridiculous amounts because of simple economics, supply and demand, there are a very limited number of good english players and for PL teams good english players are in high demand, hence their value to the SELLING club goes up.

Carroll for example is no comparrisson to Suarez or Villa in terms of ability and as an individual player is no where near worth 35M, but to Newcastle, as he was their asset on a long contract and with Newcastle in a stable financial position, he was worth 35M to them, so that's what they could afford to charge such an extrotionate fee.

Pretty simple really
 
I really hope this homegrown rule does help the national team in the long run. Lets face it they need something and more pressure to train youths and use them can only help.
 
So what standard do you think the Premier League would have without foreigners?
 
I prefer the English style of play, which had a tendency to be more physical yet sporting. What's replaced it is a shadow of the proper game with diving and cheating seen as tactics to be supported rather than challenged and remoived.
 
I don't think you get many English people talking up how great English players are.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Premier Leauge is the best in the world though. I don't care who plays in it, it's there to entertain me.
 
Hullfan1991 said:
I don't think you get many English people talking up how great English players are.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Premier Leauge is the best in the world though. I don't care who plays in it, it's there to entertain me.
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My boredom threshold kicks in at most continental games, I find the pace and end-to-end stuff we tend to see in English football more exciting and entertaining. That doesn't mean that I think the English players are the most gifted or that foreign players can't adapt to the style of football played here. I think overall the foreign insurgency has reduced the standard for English footballers whilst raising the standard for the league.

For most of the premiership (& some lower leagues) its far less of an investment of time and money to import foreign players than to develop English ones. I am not talking about the marquee signings but the myriad of lesser talents that are brought over.

Like others have said I hope that the change in rules will encourage more development of young English players over a quick fix of buying abroad. I am not convinced it will though.
 
Well before the days of a stack full of foreigners in our top division we did more than alright in European league competitions,
as for the national team decades of picking yes men as managers instead of the best has meant weve failed miserably there.
 
newlandcasual said:
Well before the days of a stack full of foreigners in our top division we did more than alright in European league competitions,
as for the national team decades of picking yes men as managers instead of the best has meant weve failed miserably there.
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agree entirely. from 1977 english clubs won the european cup for six seasons or seven out of eight. the uefa cup came here in 72 73 76 81. the cup winners cup who cared really also came here from time to time. since the pl the european champions have been from it 3 times in what? 19 years.

the press had a lot to answer for as far as england managers are concerned. those who write the garbage those rags print appear totally out of touch with what being a football fan is. the only two managers i can recall who have not been savaged by the press within three weeks of getting the job have been ericson and copello. it should have been clough in the 70s and onwards and as newland casual says managers like greenwood and mercer should not have had a look in. bobby robson was panned in his time despite reaching the semifinal of the wc but towards the end of his life the press did another u-turn and decided to worhsip him. graham taylor couldnt use his best player because he was always injured.

but the problem is where do you find a successful english manager? you dont basically. mcclaren had at least won an english trophy. hodgson did alright abroad. toshack could have done ok as england boss but wasnt english and had his hands tied in the usual way as welsh boss. who else? ron saunders and joe royle might have been but werent. who do you choose? theres nobody english. theres all the stupid stupid utterly stupid thing wwhere the press think just because a player was a good player he will magically be a great manager. thats how we end up with keegan and fruitloops like hoddle.

all the great managers of enlgish teams have been scottish. work that out.

there is a trail of people who have been the next big thing for future england manager. phil brown boothroyd etc etc.

i say give it to holloway next and lets have a laugh.
 
TigerFace said:
I really hope this homegrown rule does help the national team in the long run. Lets face it they need something and more pressure to train youths and use them can only help.
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It does nothing, I think Arsenal with the way they go about it only have a handful of players in their squad that don't qualify as homegrown. (or for the younger players won't qualify as homegrown by the time they have to go on the over 21s list)
 
I don't see how our national team can get any better in the long term, if you give a younger/lesser player a game that'll end up a fine for fielding a weakened team.

Oh and Febbos, the standard would be probably be Lower Prem and Higher Championship as a good PL side, but also all the other top euro leagues have many foreigners. One good point from it would be that Chelsea and Arsenal would be ****ed if it did happen. HAHA.
 
x said:
agree entirely. from 1977 english clubs won the european cup for six seasons or seven out of eight. the uefa cup came here in 72 73 76 81. the cup winners cup who cared really also came here from time to time. since the pl the european champions have been from it 3 times in what? 19 years.

the press had a lot to answer for as far as england managers are concerned. those who write the garbage those rags print appear totally out of touch with what being a football fan is. the only two managers i can recall who have not been savaged by the press within three weeks of getting the job have been ericson and copello. it should have been clough in the 70s and onwards and as newland casual says managers like greenwood and mercer should not have had a look in. bobby robson was panned in his time despite reaching the semifinal of the wc but towards the end of his life the press did another u-turn and decided to worhsip him. graham taylor couldnt use his best player because he was always injured.

but the problem is where do you find a successful english manager? you dont basically. mcclaren had at least won an english trophy. hodgson did alright abroad. toshack could have done ok as england boss but wasnt english and had his hands tied in the usual way as welsh boss. who else? ron saunders and joe royle might have been but werent. who do you choose? theres nobody english. theres all the stupid stupid utterly stupid thing wwhere the press think just because a player was a good player he will magically be a great manager. thats how we end up with keegan and fruitloops like hoddle.

all the great managers of enlgish teams have been scottish. work that out.

there is a trail of people who have been the next big thing for future england manager. phil brown boothroyd etc etc.

i say give it to holloway next and lets have a laugh.
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All those European triumphs mean nothing. Every time had a fair amount of Scots and a sprinkling of Welsh and Irish in them, who are foreigners and not eligible to play for England.
And, in the 1970's without the overseas players we have now in addition to any Scots, Welsh and Irish and who are supposedly the reason for England's national team struggling we failed to qualify for 2 World Cups and 2 European Championships. So alll those theories are so much hot air.

I'm not sure Brian Clough would agree with not being included in a list of great managers and certainly wouldn't think he was a Scotsman!
 
Really haven't got the energy to list all 20 teams possible English lineups with their current squads but imagine Arsenal's:

Shea
Hoyte Cruise Gibbs
Walcott Eastmond Lansbury Randall Wilshere
Emmanuel-Thomas Freeman

I'll have missed players out and I can only think of the right players for a 3-5-2, but still.. Put simply, no, the league would be screwed. Young English players struggle because of the amount of foreigners so to achieve a good level of football again it would probably take a decade or two.
 
Theres no way we are overconfident Febbos apart from a moronic minority, we all know we are a bit crap these days. What we do need though is a change of management, which would get the best out of the players that we have.
 
x said:
all the great managers of enlgish teams have been scottish. work that out.
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Wash your mouth out!

I would have thought that if all foreigners were removed from the English game, there would be a dramatic fall in the quality of the top two divisions. A noticeable fall in the quality of League One and Two as well, though not as severe.

Clubs would be forced to invest in their academies rather than taking the cheap, easy, foreign option and living off short termism which is encouraged by the presence of the transfer market. English football might well be better off for it in the long run, although, yes, the neutral would probably enjoy it less.

But screw it, the neutral can go **** themself if they keep encouraging the insane inflation, TV cartels, short-termism and debt which is plaguing English football.
 
Without the foreign players I thin that the standard of youth players would be a lot poorer than they are now tbh. There will be a lot more English players coming through sure, but I think foreign players bring more aspects to the game which can only be a good thing for any youngsters learning. Lets be fair, who would you prefer to watch and learn from; James Harper or David Silva? I disagree that the amount of foreigners is affecting the amount of quality youngsters coming through. I think the main problem is the coaching. Without top quality coaches how are young players meant to improve their skills without playing with the first team? They're not. Improve the coaching I say!

Oh and Febbos, the England national team are hugely average and over rated. Which is why I support Scotland :D
 
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