Weekend Debate

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Doc said:
Massive weekend and a huge performance required from our team. We have a new head coach and guess what, so do Southampton as Ruben Salles has now been given the job until the end of the season. He was in temporary charge last week but given the gig yesterday. So a couple of new guys going at it this weekend. Providing he gets his work permit.

Lets hope the club havent botched the Javi Gracia appointment up like they have the sacking of Marsch. They have been in touch with Gracia for a couple of weeks and will have known they would need to go to the FAs exception panel, so why leave it so late.

If Southampton win they have momentum with 6 points from 2 games

If Leeds win they are at the start of a recovery and have a chance to survive

Does a draw help either club? Maybe Saints as it would be 4 points from 2 games, but I’m afraid not good enough for Leeds

Tomoz will be exactly one year since the club sacked Bielsa and the reality is that the club have gone backwards since. Forget the would Bielsa have kept us up argument, and try and think of anything good that you can say has taken the club forward. The reality is that the appointment of Marsch has been a disaster simply because of being in a worse position now than we were in this time last year. The appointment of Bielsa’s successor should have been better and it was worse, so the board have caused this stagnation. The board have been brilliant in employing Bielsa in the first place and giving him the power to do what he did with the foundations of the club and the coaching side. The board were complicit in watching the club start to fail before the start of last season. Things were obviously not working and Bielsa wasn’t being supported and we could all see all was not good at the club. But to sit and watch what happened over the last year borders on incompetence. Marsch has had the equivalent of a whole season 38 games and the football and results were shocking. The board will be the only ones to blame if we are relegated this season. Marsch should have been sacked much earlier and we would now have had a new head coach who was good enough to win games and see us much higher up the table. Maybe a new striker would have been brought in instead of an untried potential superstar in Georginio. I’m a big fan of Georginio but he needs to be let loose from the start especially when we see Bamford forget how to kick a ball or watch him blundering about trying to get his left foot involved.

3 new arrivals could have already taken place today if the work permit situation has been done, as Zigor Aranalde, Juan Solla and Mikel Antia were expected to follow Gracia into Thorp Arch. However when does Skoobs go back to the 21s and what does it all mean for Marsch’s mate AirPod.
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I remember so well in first season back thinking this guy could have us in Europe in a couple of years. Coupled with the youth squad who were meant to be world beaters and the sky seemed to be the limit. What a balls up they mad of it
 
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milkyboy said:
cooper had credit in the bank for sure. He’s done a great job there, and had a really tough task to shape a brand new team from scratch.

My mate who’s a forest fan and seen more of them than I have thinks they’re **** and have been really lucky. If I was the sort of guy who quoted xg tables I’d back that up with evidence.

They were rank against. Parked the bus, then brought another bus on at half time.
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Cannot fault any of that but what people need to remember as I have tried to say on here before….. Cooper actually one of the first super qualified FIFA coaches, joined the FA as understudy to Southgate who was U21 coach athe time. Southgate spawned the top job but it was Cooper who won the U17s World Cup the first big trophy since 66. Cooper at Forest last season used many of those same kids on loan to win promotion and this season has gone from rank bottom to almost mid table whilst we have languished near the shyte end all season. Cooper would be great at Leeds with this squad but like Fulham who were favs to drop he will keep Forest up
 
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… I think he’s done a brilliant job - doc - last year with a stack of loanees, this year with a completely new team.

My point really was that he couldn’t do it playing football this year probably because he doesn’t have the quality of the player to do it in the PL. So, after conceding shed loads of goals early on, they’ve gone to grinding out and winning ugly. Pretty sensible under the circumstances.
 
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Eireleeds1 said:
Or second and third season like some <doh>
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The annoying thing was, there were obvious answers to ours, we were not left scratching our heads wondering what went wrong. From blind loyalty and an injury hit small squad to picking the wrong replacement, it was a catalogue of errors that we could all see unfolding.

Even this week I read we were negotiating with Gracia nearly a week before it was announced and we assumed he would get an immediate permit, the question was asked why did we not apply for it sooner.

If he’d took a few training sessions 4 days earlier it might not have made much difference but when you reflect there was an 18 day gap between Jesse going and a new guy coming in it’s not great.

Hopefully we’ll stay up and it can be put behind us
 
Sponsorship - I was just reading how our shirt sponsorship will drop if relegated, the powers that be bragging that it’s worth £6m a year, the largest we’ve ever had. It’s insignificant compared to the likes of Man City and even Liverpools £50m a year but one comparison was Southampton who get £7.5m for their Sportsbet advert.

Looking at home attendance, we average 6,000 more per game, how on earth can our board consider £6m offers good value for money, surely we should at least be on par with what Southampton can get
 
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ristac said:
Sponsorship - I was just reading how our shirt sponsorship will drop if relegated, the powers that be bragging that it’s worth £6m a year, the largest we’ve ever had. It’s insignificant compared to the likes of Man City and even Liverpools £50m a year but one comparison was Southampton who get £7.5m for their Sportsbet advert.

Looking at home attendance, we average 6,000 more per game, how on earth can our board consider £6m offers good value for money, surely we should at least be on par with what Southampton can get
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We are not a big club anymore simple as that.
 
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ristac said:
The annoying thing was, there were obvious answers to ours, we were not left scratching our heads wondering what went wrong. From blind loyalty and an injury hit small squad to picking the wrong replacement, it was a catalogue of errors that we could all see unfolding.

Even this week I read we were negotiating with Gracia nearly a week before it was announced and we assumed he would get an immediate permit, the question was asked why did we not apply for it sooner.

If he’d took a few training sessions 4 days earlier it might not have made much difference but when you reflect there was an 18 day gap between Jesse going and a new guy coming in it’s not great.

Hopefully we’ll stay up and it can be put behind us
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Easy with hindsight risty. Football fans are always looking to cherry pick. If only bielsa didn’t have a small squad, if only his fitness regime that helped make us run harder didn’t lead to more injuries, if only bielsa had canned man marking etc etc.

The bielsa thing you have to take the rough with the smooth. They guy liked a small squad, it suited his togetherness principles, he wanted players who could play multiple positions to compensate- real understanding of his system was more important than having a fixed position to him.

Fans always want to pick the bits they like, often without recognising that changing something has knock on effects.

It’s why we typically have bielsa disciples and bielsa ‘if only’s’. Both views are actually wide of the mark in my opinion. He has a philosophy that has a shelf life in my opinion. Both on the physicality and the psychology of the players.

As a club the end of the first summer we all felt we needed to invest. Was the roadblock radz or bielsa? Personally I have no idea. But if it was bielsa you can’t criticise the club for not ‘over-ruling’ a guy who has only been successful because you gave him complete control.

As for getting the replacement wrong. Marsch was a highly rated coach in the game, there are countless examples of clubs taking highly rated coaches where it hasn’t worked out.
 
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ristac said:
Sponsorship - I was just reading how our shirt sponsorship will drop if relegated, the powers that be bragging that it’s worth £6m a year, the largest we’ve ever had. It’s insignificant compared to the likes of Man City and even Liverpools £50m a year but one comparison was Southampton who get £7.5m for their Sportsbet advert.

Looking at home attendance, we average 6,000 more per game, how on earth can our board consider £6m offers good value for money, surely we should at least be on par with what Southampton can get
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Agree with the value point - we have greater support and exposure than Southampton, our sponsorship deal should be worth more. As for relegation clause? I’d imagine this is pretty standard. The value to the sponsor equates to the brand exposure… which would drop
 
wakeybreakyheart said:
We are not a big club anymore simple as that.
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I agree when compared to the big guns but surely we are not worth less than Southampton. Isn't advertising on a shirt about views and how many people will see the advert. Look at our fan base and coverage and shirt sales, it's got to be greater than Southampton

Milky I agree with relegation, I haven't an issue with that. Then again what is the difference between Championship advertising and Premier league on a shirt
 
milkyboy said:
Easy with hindsight risty. Football fans are always looking to cherry pick. If only bielsa didn’t have a small squad, if only his fitness regime that helped make us run harder didn’t lead to more injuries, if only bielsa had canned man marking etc etc.

The bielsa thing you have to take the rough with the smooth. They guy liked a small squad, it suited his togetherness principles, he wanted players who could play multiple positions to compensate- real understanding of his system was more important than having a fixed position to him.

Fans always want to pick the bits they like, often without recognising that changing something has knock on effects.

It’s why we typically have bielsa disciples and bielsa ‘if only’s’. Both views are actually wide of the mark in my opinion. He has a philosophy that has a shelf life in my opinion. Both on the physicality and the psychology of the players.

As a club the end of the first summer we all felt we needed to invest. Was the roadblock radz or bielsa? Personally I have no idea. But if it was bielsa you can’t criticise the club for not ‘over-ruling’ a guy who has only been successful because you gave him complete control.

As for getting the replacement wrong. Marsch was a highly rated coach in the game, there are countless examples of clubs taking highly rated coaches where it hasn’t worked out.
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Who was Marsch highly rated by, he was unemployed, I didn't see a queue forming for him

One simple question

Orta - Hello Jesse can you work with the players we have, are they going to suit your vision?

Jesse - No I am going to need at least 8-9 new players as I am not capable of coaching the ones you have to play in the style I adopt
 
Im watching Sunderland vs Coventry. If we had Gyokeres up top instead of Bamford we'd be much much better. Hope we break the bank for him this summer.
 
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