Weekend Debate

[Doc]

It seems the club are open to selling Adam Forshaw, well good luck with that because he’s a player who can be seen as a waste of money. We bought him for £4.5m in January 2018 and to be fair he was a good combative addition to our midfield. He can play DM or AM but in the real world he got a hip injury and he was out of action for what seemed like years. Another Tyler Roberts who is made of biscuit. Roberts by the way is on his 3rd injury down at QPR and will not be fit to play for them again until next year. Forshaw is a lovely lad but he has only averaged 15 games per season since he arrived in Leeds. 12 games in the 17/18, 31 in 18/19 then 7 then 22 last season and just 2 so far this season. He has a value of £1.75m but his contract runs out in June and don’t expect him to be offered another. I hope he finds a club and gets fit to play for however long he has left. Some will think he should be kept as cover for Adams or Roca but in fairness we have better kids coming through in Greenwood, Gyabi or Gray.

The YEP published an interesting story about European clubs starting team values and Leeds featured as being higher than many top clubs in Europe. I know we have debated similar regarding squad value, but starting 11 average value should give a real indication for how you are expected to do in the league?

1. Man City €605m
2. PSG…….€510m
3. Man Utd..€480m
4. Liverpool €409m
5. Chelsea…€393m
6. Arsenal…€382m
7. Real Madrid €370m
8. Barcelona. €334m
9. Juventus €300m
10. B. Munich €294m
11. Newcastle €257m
12. A. Madrid €251m
13. Tottenham €230m
14. Napoli ….€228m
15. A. Villa…€212m
16. Wolves….€202m
17. Leeds Utd €189m

So on paper Leeds have an average starting team value which is the 11th highest in the Premier League, so should we expect to finish just outside the top 10?. The variance between the 16th place squad value and this starting 11 value is due to us having a smaller squad but many in the squad are former academy players.

The Marsch signings have all been great and to say we lost Kalvin Phillips in the Summer he hasn’t been missed. Roca and Adams are doing a great job and Tyler Adams is now showing why he is a wanted man by some top teams. A few weeks ago many of us were saying Louis Sinisterra was the bargain of the summer and when we got him back after he missed pre-season he scored 2 in 2 and we thought wow. Now we have lost him yet again on top of his previous injury and his red card ban, he won’t be back until January. Not sure if his injury stops him going to the World Cup but we have to hope he comes back fit and goes on to fulfil his promise and provide the goals and assists we will need to ensure survival. Lets hope we haven’t bought SonofForshaw. Kristensen is also now proving he is a war horse and sure he will also provide some assists too as he comes to terms with this league

When is the optimum time for the 49ers to pull the trigger and buy out Radz? In my view it will never happen until Leeds can prove they are not going to be in a relegation fight. The value of the club is now somewhere between £300-£400m so the 49ers will have to shell out 46% of that to give to Radz. If however we are relegated this season the value of the club would drop by around £150m so not really a great investment. Which means if it’s to happen next year, Leeds would have to be in safe position by Easter, which means a string of good results required and a bottom 3 relatively set. The deadline is 2024 so failure to launch next year means Radz needs to go though the same thing again next summer and next season hoping the club can be a firm favourite for stability in the league

 

[Jammy 07]

With a winnable EFL Cup tie coming up against Wolves on Wednesday should we put out the strongest possible side and look to progress ?

We won't of course because the club. the same as all clubs take us the fans for mugs and don't really give a sh*t do they.

 

[Doc]

With a winnable EFL Cup tie coming up against Wolves on Wednesday should we put out the strongest possible side and look to progress ?

We won't of course because the club. the same as all clubs take us the fans for mugs and don't really give a sh*t do they.

I can see Llorente, Klaessen, Ayling, Firpo getting a run out and a new attack line maybe with Bamford starting but if not Gelhardt and Gnonto.

 

[Doc]

Looking more and more likely that Elia Caprile will move to one of Italys top clubs in the summer. Great news for Leeds as we have a 50% sell on clause. Caprile was sold to Bari earlier this year. He is the first team keeper and has 4 clean sheets from 11 games and is now the Italy U21 starting keeper.

 

[NostradEmus]

With a winnable EFL Cup tie coming up against Wolves on Wednesday should we put out the strongest possible side and look to progress ?

We won't of course because the club. the same as all clubs take us the fans for mugs and don't really give a sh*t do they.

If we had 5 more points on the board I would play the strongest XI. Unfortunately we need points in the league and playing midweek does affect the following weekends game especially given the high intensity we play at.

However, our second string is much much stronger this season. You could easily play a team similar to....

-----------------Meslier
Ayling--Llorente--Struijk--Firpo
-------Greenwood--Roca
Summerville--Gelhardt--Gnonto
--------------Bamford

Given Wolves are in a bad situation I think they will rest a few too. This team might be good enough to get a result and also get valuable game time in to a few fringe players whilst keeping the main lads fit for a game the weekend after.

 

[ristac]

Only thing I’d say on squad values, does it go on what we paid for Firpo, Rodrigo, James and Llorente as none would be worth that much if we sold them. I’m guessing it doesn’t and it has to be current estimated value? I think the figures are extremely questionable but if you beat Liverpool at Anfield and Chelsea in the same season yes you should be higher

 

[wakeybreakyheart]

It seems the club are open to selling Adam Forshaw, well good luck with that because he’s a player who can be seen as a waste of money. We bought him for £4.5m in January 2018 and to be fair he was a good combative addition to our midfield. He can play DM or AM but in the real world he got a hip injury and he was out of action for what seemed like years. Another Tyler Roberts who is made of biscuit. Roberts by the way is on his 3rd injury down at QPR and will not be fit to play for them again until next year. Forshaw is a lovely lad but he has only averaged 15 games per season since he arrived in Leeds. 12 games in the 17/18, 31 in 18/19 then 7 then 22 last season and just 2 so far this season. He has a value of £1.75m but his contract runs out in June and don’t expect him to be offered another. I hope he finds a club and gets fit to play for however long he has left. Some will think he should be kept as cover for Adams or Roca but in fairness we have better kids coming through in Greenwood, Gyabi or Gray.

The YEP published an interesting story about European clubs starting team values and Leeds featured as being higher than many top clubs in Europe. I know we have debated similar regarding squad value, but starting 11 average value should give a real indication for how you are expected to do in the league?

1. Man City €605m
2. PSG…….€510m
3. Man Utd..€480m
4. Liverpool €409m
5. Chelsea…€393m
6. Arsenal…€382m
7. Real Madrid €370m
8. Barcelona. €334m
9. Juventus €300m
10. B. Munich €294m
11. Newcastle €257m
12. A. Madrid €251m
13. Tottenham €230m
14. Napoli ….€228m
15. A. Villa…€212m
16. Wolves….€202m
17. Leeds Utd €189m

So on paper Leeds have an average starting team value which is the 11th highest in the Premier League, so should we expect to finish just outside the top 10?. The variance between the 16th place squad value and this starting 11 value is due to us having a smaller squad but many in the squad are former academy players.

The Marsch signings have all been great and to say we lost Kalvin Phillips in the Summer he hasn’t been missed. Roca and Adams are doing a great job and Tyler Adams is now showing why he is a wanted man by some top teams. A few weeks ago many of us were saying Louis Sinisterra was the bargain of the summer and when we got him back after he missed pre-season he scored 2 in 2 and we thought wow. Now we have lost him yet again on top of his previous injury and his red card ban, he won’t be back until January. Not sure if his injury stops him going to the World Cup but we have to hope he comes back fit and goes on to fulfil his promise and provide the goals and assists we will need to ensure survival. Lets hope we haven’t bought SonofForshaw. Kristensen is also now proving he is a war horse and sure he will also provide some assists too as he comes to terms with this league

When is the optimum time for the 49ers to pull the trigger and buy out Radz? In my view it will never happen until Leeds can prove they are not going to be in a relegation fight. The value of the club is now somewhere between £300-£400m so the 49ers will have to shell out 46% of that to give to Radz. If however we are relegated this season the value of the club would drop by around £150m so not really a great investment. Which means if it’s to happen next year, Leeds would have to be in safe position by Easter, which means a string of good results required and a bottom 3 relatively set. The deadline is 2024 so failure to launch next year means Radz needs to go though the same thing again next summer and next season hoping the club can be a firm favourite for stability in the league

Another point of view about the 49ers is if we finish top ten (maybe) then they could also sell their shares. They are an investment arm and not in this game for a laugh. They could still make a nice profit and walk away. Rads is chancing his luck with some of these sick note signings on the cheap. Rads said he knew nothing about running a club. Fair enough but a blind man listening on the radio could tell where we need improving.

 

[milkyboy]

If we had 5 more points on the board I would play the strongest XI. Unfortunately we need points in the league and playing midweek does affect the following weekends game especially given the high intensity we play at.

However, our second string is much much stronger this season. You could easily play a team similar to....

-----------------Meslier
Ayling--Llorente--Struijk--Firpo
-------Greenwood--Roca
Summerville--Gelhardt--Gnonto
--------------Bamford

Given Wolves are in a bad situation I think they will rest a few too. This team might be good enough to get a result and also get valuable game time in to a few fringe players whilst keeping the main lads fit for a game the weekend after.

yup

The last time we played 3 games in a week we were great in the first one, and poor in the other two. Coincidence? Maybe. But with our lung busting style it was a flag raised ahead of those games.

That team looks there or thereabouts to me Emu. They’ll probably know from stats which players recover better in terms of which first team starters would play.

Cup runs would be nice - and a good chance to give fringe players some air time. It’s always a delicate balance as you have to stay in the cup to give them the game time - but with where we are now, the League has to come first.

 

[Doc]

Another point of view about the 49ers is if we finish top ten (maybe) then they could also sell their shares. They are an investment arm and not in this game for a laugh. They could still make a nice profit and walk away. Rads is chancing his luck with some of these sick note signings on the cheap. Rads said he knew nothing about running a club. Fair enough but a blind man listening on the radio could tell where we need improving.

This is also very possible and wouldn’t it be great if someone like Jim Ratcliffe stepped in to buy us. Team Ineos anyone and forget the rumblings trying to buy Man Utd

 

[SIDDAS]

I'm happy with the Squad just needs tinkered. All our new players this season are adapting to their roles. Everyone knows we need a LB which wouldn't rock the boat on the squad. Firpo can stay as cover for now and it frees Struijk up to go back into the central position which personally I think he would make his own.
Striker position do we, don't we? Personally, I say yes but this could leave a problem and probably someone has to leave to keep a happy ship. Rodri we would have to take a massive loss on so it could be problematic. Bamford is younger and will still hold a decent fee but we've been carrying him since his injury which is into the 2nd seasons now, he either has to find his mojo again or the club have to make a big decision on his future.
Forshaw has to go for the good of the club he's a passenger. It's not his fault he's always injured but we have given him plenty of time and hand on heart really is he good enough?
Ayling,Klich are now in that situation where they won't figure as much and as much as I would love to keep both to the end of the season they could think differently and force a move more being Klich I think.
End of the day it's side before self every player has reasons of staying but the football club is bigger than every player at the club. you can only be loyal so much as if we ever did go back down to the championship think how many of these players would want to jump ship and forget the club because of the league we would be in.

 

[milkyboy]

So Lopetegui to wolves. Good move for them. They’ve not played badly all season just had similar problems to us… not converting opportunities. He can’t kick it in the net for them but would expect some fresh blood in Jan.. and a good chance they start to climb the table a bit.

 

[Jammy 07]

I can see Llorente, Klaessen, Ayling, Firpo getting a run out and a new attack line maybe with Bamford starting but if not Gelhardt and Gnonto.

Arsenal have been putting strong teams out every Thursday in the Europa League and topped their group. As they also sit top of the PL maybe playing more often actually builds up fitness and improves performance ?

If after the one midweek game we've had our levels dropped off then clearly we're not match fit enough.

 

[Jammy 07]

It seems Wolves have finally got there man in Jelen Lopetegui formerly of Real Madrid and Seville. Fully expect him to be backed in the transfer window and it's a massive boost for Wolves as they battle against their poor start to the season.

 

[milkyboy]

Arsenal have been putting strong teams out every Thursday in the Europa League and topped their group. As they also sit top of the PL maybe playing more often actually builds up fitness and improves performance ?

If after the one midweek game we've had our levels dropped off then clearly we're not match fit enough.

interesting theory. Not based on any fact in this instance. Have you checked the Arsenal teams?… they make a raft of changes mid week.

In any case this isn’t about fitness it’s about recovery time. We’re one of the harder running sides… as per the comparison with Liverpool… so reasonable to expect optimal recovery may take longer.

But hey let’s not let medical science get in the way of a *** packet analysis

Seriously, though we’re obviously talking about fine margins here. Generally most players are back to meeting their fitness metrics within 72 hours. So on paper midweek games should be fine. But it varies player to player. It also increases injury risk and recovery from knocks. Plus Lack of game plan focussed preparation for the next game during recovery etc.

Also individual player fitness plans need to allow cyclical recovery periods from build up of fatigue so can impact on them.

 

[milkyboy]

It seems Wolves have finally got there man in Jelen Lopetegui formerly of Real Madrid and Seville. Fully expect him to be backed in the transfer window and it's a massive boost for Wolves as they battle against their poor start to the season.

great minds etc… Yours just a little bit slower than mine as usual

 

[Jammy 07]

great minds etc… Yours just a little bit slower than mine as usual

Think Wolves will be fine now whereas before they might have struggled and lingered arounfd the bottom 3 all season. It's still a mystery as to who will go down but todays matches will perhaps give us some more pointers.

Forest v Brentford
Wolves v Brighton
Everton v Leicester

And not forgetting our big one of course.

Talking of which it's time to go soo byyyyyyyeeee

 

[milkyboy]

Think Wolves will be fine now whereas before they might have struggled and lingered arounfd the bottom 3 all season. It's still a mystery as to who will go down but todays matches will perhaps give us some more pointers.

Forest v Brentford
Wolves v Brighton
Everton v Leicester

And not forgetting our big one of course.

Talking of which it's time to go soo byyyyyyyeeee

yep - he’s a good pick for them, agree.

Hope the boys make your trip an enjoyable one.

 

[Infidel]

I see Charlie Taylor is on the bench for Burnley against the Blunts.

 

[Doc]

Theres a debate to be had on Bamford who is injured yet again. Why persist with him in the first team squad until he is fully fit and fully confident of at least scoring from the odd chance. For me he has hurt the progress of Joffy and Gnonto, simply because Marsch wants him to play. He has proved in every game he managed to play this season he simply isn’t ready.

to get fit he needs game time so U21s and cup games. Use the minutes properly and get confidence in front of goal

 

[milkyboy]

Just watching the blunts Dismantle Burnley. Ndiaye looks a real player. Ollie mcburnie who i always thought looked decent (despite terrible goal record ) has bagged a couple and been a real handful too,