Agree Emu but international defenders don’t make loads of mistakes, ours do because maybe instinct says one thing and then remember what Marsch wants. It’s confusing to try and work out his defensive structure for us never mind for the players. Why is Kristensen always given the biggest lump to mark at set pieces and then why does that always leave the opposition with an unmarked player in the LB area?
Weekend Debate
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
I'm not saying that the tactics are spot on. I just see individual errors like I amended in my original post.
It's normal to defend narrow. Usually you're coached to defend the width of the 18 yard box and you keep your shape and move as a unit. You're even coached to let the opposition player at the back post be free as he is the least dangerous player as he is furthest away from the ball. Its standard tactics and from my experience works well.
For some reason our back four just can't hold their shape and on a lot of occasions we don't win the ball coming in either at all or not cleanly and it's us that flicks the ball to the back post. It's poor defending on an individual level and as a unit.
Struijk has been a good stand in left back but he is guilty of playing too narrow at times. We NEED a natural left back. That would rectify the side a bit and give it more balance. Summerville yesterday was guilty of not tracking back which gave them an overload. Interestingly Harrison is more inclined to help out defensively but that blunts his attacking play and he gets pelters for it.
We have a strange dynamical the moment. I think we could get Roca to step in to a back 3 when we defend (which is pretty much what we do anyway against teams that have possession). The issue is when teams break on us and we don’t have time to set ourselves. That's when individuals HAVE to defend well and just be strong. Our individuals haven't done that this season.
I noticed in the first half that 5ft Adams was marking 7ft Billing at corners.
Don’t think we’ve conceded from a corner this season so it must be working
EDIT: Apart from Fulham
Do we have 2 DMs or do we have3 AMs and 2 wingers? Because it seems to me we end up with Koch or Cooper on the halfway line and both full backs ahead of them at times and it’s then open season for the opposition. Its not rocket science for Rodgers, O’Neil or Silva to exploit Leeds set-up but it seems to hard for Marsch to close the door on them. We have been torn to shreds countless times this season, yet been solid against Chelsea Arsenal and Liverpool?
I am also seeing Struijk not getting much flack because he’s standing in. Yesterday he made mistakes in defence and some in attack too. I think Firpo would be better, yes I know everyone hates him but Struijk mistakes have been many recently but he’s getting a free pass 
I thought the Manager analyses the opposition prior to a match, if so who the fck decided (as Forza states) Adams mark Billing?? this goes deeper than this, you need a leader to point out the obvious on the pitch and tell them to get responsible and take your man, Cooper is not that man, he says fck all does not dish bollockings out, be a man and chat with the manager on behalf of the players, state the obvious, but sorry we don’t have that at this moment.I noticed in the first half that 5ft Adams was marking 7ft Billing at corners.
Don’t think we’ve conceded from a corner this season so it must be working
EDIT: Apart from Fulham
I am also seeing Struijk not getting much flack because he’s standing in. Yesterday he made mistakes in defence and some in attack too. I think Firpo would be better, yes I know everyone hates him but Struijk mistakes have been many recently but he’s getting a free pass
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We kind of setup with a back 4, then Roca, then another bank of 5 (Harrison, Adams, Aaronson, Summerville and Rodrigo) and its these 5 who are really high up the pitch and they do the pressing.
What teams are doing to us now is leaving our front 5 with an overload by just leaving 4 at the back. That in turn gives them an overload against our back 4. Then they hit it long over our front bank and have the numbers to pick up the 2nd balls and then exploit the advantage in numbers. That's why its important that our defenders win the ball but too often we **** it up.
To be honest, that's where we miss a fit Phillips. He was exceptional at reading the game and being in the right place at the right time. Roca has been good but he needs to be better at picking those 2nd balls up.
Struijk is guilty of being out of position too often. He gets sucked in to midfield chasing those 2nd balls but isn't quick enough to get there and then the flank is exposed which has a knock on affect of Cooper having to come across to left back, Koch to left centre back and Kristensen to right centre back leaving the far post free. That happens on both sides but particularly from Struijk.
If you look at Bournemouth 3rd goal we have Adams and Gnonto back. That's a standard tactics. Leave the small quick guys to cover the counter whilst the big ****ers go forward for the corner. I don't have a problem with that. We had plenty of players back and Adams was too concerned about Moore at the back post instead of concentrating on Solanke at the near post. As a defender, you always cover the man nearest the ball. He's the most dangerous.
Phillips read the game as good as I've seen anyone read the game. That was his biggest strength. Always in the right place at the right time. One other thing he did well was the pace on his passes. They were quicker than you think and that gives you more time on the ball as an attacker.
Doc, our international defenders have continually made loads of mistakes under both bielsa and marsch. It could well be instinct v system. They had man marking with bielsa and (what is actually a fairly standard) rest defence set up with marsch. It could also be they are not up to the rigours and pace of premier league football. My feeling is likely a bit of both.
I noticed in the first half that 5ft Adams was marking 7ft Billing at corners.
Don’t think we’ve conceded from a corner this season so it must be working
EDIT: Apart from Fulham
Bournemouth are a big side. We are much smaller with Gnonto, Harrison, Summerville, Adams, Aaronson, Gelhardt and Forshaw all playing dwarves in this year's club panto.
At some point we'll have a little un marking a big un.
Dyche will have it sorted when he comes in.
Here’s what I think
The Jesse is a stubborn sod and will do anything not change his system
Yesterday the camera cought him a number of times and his expression told me he did not know what to do
His subs seem forced to me and seem like last ditch salvage attempts
We are so wide open at the back it’s almost unbelievable
The players are told to play a certain way so can’t be too critical of them it’s the game plan that’s too rigid
I like Meslier so don’t get me wrong but the look of panic on his face yesterday on many occasions told me he doesn’t like being so exposed (don’t blame him)
Spurs game will tell if the big Jesse has learnt anything from yesterday
The Jesse is a stubborn sod and will do anything not change his system
Yesterday the camera cought him a number of times and his expression told me he did not know what to do
His subs seem forced to me and seem like last ditch salvage attempts
We are so wide open at the back it’s almost unbelievable
The players are told to play a certain way so can’t be too critical of them it’s the game plan that’s too rigid
I like Meslier so don’t get me wrong but the look of panic on his face yesterday on many occasions told me he doesn’t like being so exposed (don’t blame him)
Spurs game will tell if the big Jesse has learnt anything from yesterday
Yeh.. it seems to me that it’s too simple to get that far post overload against us. Particularly so for Bournemouth with two strikers. Centrehalf covers full back, so our other full back has to cover centre half. - free man at the back. Kristenson then has decisions to make.
At Leicester ras got drawn to the ball when there were plenty of white shirts and he didn’t need to, leaving a guy free behind him to tap in for their second. At Liverpool he ball watched and let Salah jog past him. I think he was at fault for both those goals. Yesterday I don’t blame him really. It was 2 v 1 and Moore is the bigger threat.
What I’m genuinely not sure about is What is our method to stop it meant to be? I know how it’s supposed to work When our defensive pattern is set… Either in or out of possession… one or both pivots dropping deep to offer cover for the centre backs. I also get the problem of us giving possession away quickly and struggling in transition before the defence is set.
However the first two Bournemouth goals didn’t come from quick transitions… the second goal was just sh*t defending. But marsch needs to address how such a simple move was able to create an easy overload for the first goal
… but it’s also where your earlier point comes in. You’re going to have stretched moments in any game.. in those situations you really need good quality natural and instinctive defenders. I don’t think we have enough of that.
I think on the third, Adams got too destracted by whether gnonto was doing his job, and thus was a touch slow to react to solanke’s cut for the near post. That said he did pretty much get there and was a bit unlucky to get nutmegged.
You may be right, but there’s a lot of supposition there. Subs forced? He brought gnonto on for Harrison and greenwood for roca… neither were injuries. Big call to have played either from the start, after anfield. Both changed the game yesterday.
As for meslier- We play a high line and commit bodies forward it’s true. We did the same under bielsa so he should be used to it.
Personally I'd take still take Dyche over what we currently have.
Full marks to Jesse yesterday for the substitutions, but for the whole 90 mins he stood silent on the touchline, no coaching, no tweaking or tactical adjustments whatsover.
The bottom line is the players dug deep and got us out of a mess created by the tactical set up. You can argue about the 3 goals conceded and who was indiviually responsible but you can't really argue that Bournemouth could and perhaps should have been out of sight by HT.
It’s just my opinion how I see things
As I’ve said before I like Harrison don’t know why but if I see him take another corner I’ll spit blood
Against Spurs I would start both Willy and Greenwood as I see this game as a free hit (not expecting anything)