Weekend Debate

Doc

Doc

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2011
20,730
27,397
113
Cheshire
You must log in or register to see images


This weeks weekender should give all who read it a few ideas about who they see leaving the club. It will also stimulate the grey matter and will cause a few arguments which I prefer to call debates. I have not listed the first team players and their contract end dates, except for those out on loan. None of us know whats in Marsch’s head regarding his first team squad, but what we can do here is show who and what we have to play with outside of the first team. Enjoy



Lets say we will survive this season as that seems to be the favourite with bookies. Then lets assume the meeting between Marsch and Orta went well and we know which players are being looked at. We then have the problem of the players we will need to offload for cash, players who we just release and players who will not get a new contract. Of the loan players for example most we got for free or little cost and have a value. Costa however cost a lot and now worth little.



We also need to understand the reality of a player value. I have listed some valuations but some will be higher and some will be lower in reality. So for the purposes of this exercise lets all agree that this isnt a full open book account, but an indication of value.



You will also notice that contract end dates are a problem. Some players who some deem as crap May have a 2024 end date and some with a 2023 end date will have a lower transfer value as the player moves into the final year of his deal.one player who has no contract come June is Nohan Kenneh and my understanding is that this kid will be part of Marsch’s first team squad for next season, so a new deal should be coming.



Players out on loan:

Bogutsz contract expires 2023. Great season but bad injury. Worth £2.5m

Edmondson contract expires 2023. Poor season in Lg2 only played 14 scored 3 worth £200k

McCalmont contract expires 2024. Great season in Lg2 played 27 plus Northern Ireland. Worth £1m

Kun will be released in June contract expires

Elia Caprile contract 2024 and had a great season playing 34 times with 12 clean sheets. Worth £3m

Davies contract 2023 and up and down season in the Championship playing 13 times. Worth £2m

Poveda contract 2024 and received a bad injury in the Championship worth £2m

Kamwa will leave in June as contract expires.

Kiko contract 2023. Played 12 with 3 clean sheets worth £500k

Costa contract 2024. Played 20 times in La Liga and worth £8m

Drameh contracted to 2024 having great season plus now an England U21 player and worth?

Total value £17m without Drameh, if we move them all on but we could retain some?



There are players in the first team who may be sold? Some we would prefer went but we dont know what Marsch wants for Next season. As an example we have U23s which will deffo see some movement. Plus we dont exactly know what Marsh’s youth policy is going to be? With Bielsa we knew he wanted Mark Jackson to have the 23s use the same tactics as the first team. We also knew all age levels were given the same policy. I suspect Marsch will have a variation of this so the kids will be selected, or not based upon how Marsch wants bis teams to set up.



U23s



Shackelton (first team) 22yo contracted to 2024

McGurk 19yo contracted to 2024

Snowdon 18yo contracted to 2023

Mullen 17yo contracted to 2023

Hjelde 18yo contracted to 2024

Moore 18yo contracted to 2024

Fernandez 18yo contracted to 2025

Van Den Hueval 18yo contracted to 2024

Cresswell 19yo contracted to 2025

Jenkins 20yo contracted to 2024

McKinstry 19yo contracted to 2023

Gelhardt (first team) 19yo contracted to 2024

Summerville 20yo contracted to 2023

Miller 19yo contracted to 2025

Greenwood 20yo contracted to 2023

Dean 17yo contracted to 2023

Allen 18yo contracted to 2023

McCarron 21yo contracted to 2023

Kenneh 19yo contracted to June. Give this kid a big contractNOW

Bate 19yo contracted to 2024



Only so many kids will break into the first team for next season and under the 18+4 policy you have to accept that some kids will be moved on. For example Liam McCarron the eldest at 21 has made the first team bench, but will probably have to be sold. It would be unfair to keep him playing out of position at LB and he has now done at least 3 seasons in the 23s. Also Greenwood and Summerville along with Drameh are too good for the 23s so need to use them or lose them for cash as they need to play. A lot of cash can be earned from these if sold, but will Marsch see them as first teamers? I guess the contract end dates will come into play and I also suspect we are going to see a very busy summer with new coaches coming in as JM has a skeleton staff at the moment. Some kids will have contracts extended, some will be moved on and

some first teamers are likely to be sold which means JM will need new first teamers too to get to his ideal 18+4



Heres a scenario that gets lots of speculation in the twittersphere:



Players leaving



Firpo

Koch

Raphinha

Shackelton

Roberts

Greenwood

Jenkins

McCarron

Kiko

Costa

Poveda



5 first teamers, 3 been out on loan and 3 U23s which gives Marsch the chance to freshen up the first team squad. It would also mean Summerville and Drameh are now first team squad players with Gelhardt.



Last season 8 players were sold and 10 went out on loan and the season before 23 players were sold or released/loaned…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Infidel, Whitejock, FORZA LEEDS and 6 others
How long will Marsch want to keep Cooper, Forshaw, Ayling, Rodrigo, Dallas for example as all now over 30yo. Ayling for example has had a poor season by his standards but in fairness has played mostly as a CB in a defence that was cobbled together due to injuries. Dallas again has played in various positions but mainly as a LB or RB and played through pain. Forshaw has been fairly consistent which was a nice surprise but has had to cover for Phillips and has struggled with consistency as he has had different midfield partners all season. We have plenty of cover for Cooper but hes a leader on and off the field and maybe his best position next season is on the bench. Rodrigo has been played in his preferred position for the first time since joining the club, and has been consistently up there or thereabouts as Leeds best player in the last 4 or 5 games. Wouldnt it be best to have back-ups for Ayling and Dallas as we already have for Cooper. Is it worth having Forshaw on the bench and having someone ahead of him?….
 
Probably worth noting Doc that we would still get a fee for players U23 who leave at the end of their contract. That's provided we've offered them new terms of course.

Summerville, Greenwood & Kenneh being the ones who might decline to extend their contracts this summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc
Also with noting the Chelsea model of getting their youth to sign contract extensions before they go out on loan.

That obviously means giving them financial security by offering them £20k plus a week otherwise the players wouldn't sign. How many times did Tammy Abraham go out on loan before finally leaving for £35M.

Can we afford to do that and should we be giving the likes of Greenwood & Summerville that type of money ?

Connor Gallagher spent last season on loan at WBA and this season at Palace but before then was he on anyone's radar ? Now he must be worth £50M plus if anyone wants to get him out of Chelsea.
 
Jammy 07 said:
Also with noting the Chelsea model of getting their youth to sign contract extensions before they go out on loan.

That obviously means giving them financial security by offering them £20k plus a week otherwise the players wouldn't sign. How many times did Tammy Abraham go out on loan before finally leaving for £35M.

Can we afford to do that and should we be giving the likes of Greenwood & Summerville that type of money ?

Connor Gallagher spent last season on loan at WBA and this season at Palace but before then was he on anyone's radar ? Now he must be worth £50M plus if anyone wants to get him out of Chelsea.
Click to expand...
When we sent Alfie out he had a new contract extension, so did Davies as he was out of contract, plus Edmondson and all we seem to have done is give them a new deal for no return. Kun now out of contract, we increased Bogutsz so he a Alfie and Davies will give us a few quid. Massive difference though with Drameh, Summerville and Greenwood. All played first team prem football?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jammy 07
Doc said:
When we sent Alfie out he had a new contract extension, so did Davies as he was out of contract, plus Edmondson and all we seem to have done is give them a new deal for no return. Kun now out of contract, we increased Bogutsz so he a Alfie and Davies will give us a few quid. Massive difference though with Drameh, Summerville and Greenwood. All played first team prem football?
Click to expand...
It doesnt always work as with Kun who we paid a few quid for to Barcelona and get nothing in return we did the same with Mujica from Barcelona, then increased his contract and sent him out on loan and now gone with no return..
 
Leedsoflondon said:
We seem to be Barcelona’s ****feeder team <doh>
Click to expand...
There was another kid too who came at the same time as Rafa Mujica, I believe his father was a former Barcelona legend, but ant think of his name. He lasted a couple of months and bailed out back to Spain. Obviously Junior Firpo is a massive hit <laugh>
 
Doc said:
There was another kid too who came at the same time as Rafa Mujica, I believe his father was a former Barcelona legend, but ant think of his name. He lasted a couple of months and bailed out back to Spain. Obviously Junior Firpo is a massive hit <laugh>
Click to expand...


Was it Guille Amor ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc
If we stay up I see a lot of the u23's leaving A lot were bought not only to see if they were good enough to flourish to the first team but to turn over a profit as sellable assets which most will probably do.
The task they have on their young shoulders is enormous. Most basically have to come from development league football straight into one of the best leagues in the world. It's not impossible but you have to be damn good to make the massive step.
I'm a big believer in learning your trade through loan spells These kids then see what real football is and find their level the cream will always rise to the top. just because a kid is ripping up the development scene doesn't make him a prem player far from it.
Quite a few of our u23's are at that age now which want and need proper game time and from the position we are in ie the Premier League it's very hard to hand it to them unless you are something special.
Yes we have some talent in there but how many are ready to make that step up at this moment in time?. not many regarding how much potential they may possibly possess. It's a hard one for the club next season because these young men are getting itchy feet now and understandably so.
As on the first team I think we really need to reshuffle the pack because hand on heart this current team is not good enough even when fully fit.
Both our Fullbacks need replacing. Dallas and Ayling have done the club proud but sentimental issues now have to go out the window. I still would like them here next season but as squad players.
Had a good look at Forshaw since he's been back and he's done well to get where he is but he isn't a first team player for us next season.
Klich still has the brain but no legs and another who has to sadly go.
I think Rodrigo will go and I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Llorente or Koch to go either.
I guess everyone has their own thoughts of who should go but I think one thing we all agree on is that the club needs to bring in better quality and more numbers even after a injury plagued season as this team is not progressing as the club expected it would.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ristac and Doc
Evening all.
I don't understand the urge to get rid of players. We were much better when Cooper came back in. Ayling was back to the old Bill once he was back in his favourite position and didn't have the responsibility of the Captaincy.
I think we've sorely missed Philips and Cooper and I'm sure them coming back will help others to play better.
We've been cursed with injuries this season so I hope we're beginning to see some light at the end of a very dark tunnel.
I think Ayling and Cooper will both be in contention for starting places next season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeedsRover1, foolee, Jammy 07 and 3 others
Given the current state of football finances outside the pl we will not receive fees for anyone we move on. Lower division clubs can only afford loans. Only hope is we’d move them to Europe but finances no better in much of that. Add agents fees who organise the loans and we mightn’t even break even. Even Costa for example and he’s not bad, won’t be going to another pl club, he’ll be loaned down a division where we might still have to cover part of his wages
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc and Whitejock
5 subs next year, would that influence game time for the youngsters?
Or the chance to rotate some of the 'older' players after say 60 mins?
 
Eireleeds1 said:
I’d say it means we need a bigger squad of senior players. Hard to rotate strikers if you only have one. Mind you on a good day we could rotate or centre halves several times
Click to expand...
We could sub our one striker at half time give him 30 minutes rest then back on again for the last 30.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back