You might be right to be fair. As I said earlier in this thread I’ve only seen one live game this season. And pedro does seem pretty decent. My extremely small sample size says we could have had 4-5 against West Brom. Regardless of our profligacy in front of goal though, we’re dangerously open at the back. If we’re going to give that many chances up, we need to be razor sharp at the other end for Walter’s tactics to stand any chance.
Walter Out
- Thread starter Sir Cheshire Ben
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I just don't know why people keep quoting that number when there's no facts to back it up.
The issue with debt is that PSR/FFP/whatever you want to call it limits owners losses, but it still means over time that owners are encouraged to 'push to the limit' and thus rack up debt. If they aren't pushing to the limit, they're called out as under-investing by the fans. If we had a summer under Acun where we sold players for 20-30m and only brought in some cheap replacements, there would be howls of derision and criticism of him, even though long term having a summer of consolidation like that would actually be in the best interests of the club. Modern football doesn't encourage that though, and outside of Brighton, every club is pushed to reinvest whatever they recoup from sales. It's an unintended consequence of FFP, where the loss limits aren't a cap so much as they are a target for clubs to spend to.
We were 25m in debt last set of accounts and then last year didn't make a significant sale (other than Tufan I suppose) but would have incurred a similar loss to the last set of accounts (i.e. 20m operating loss). It is a case of making an assumption, but it's an assumption based on facts, and the FACT is that we were 25m in debt and then pushed the boat out signing Philogene, Omur, Pandur, Carvalho loan fee, etc.
That debt may have reduced somewhat in this current year with the Philogene and Greaves' sales, but not substantially.
So it is just a guess that it's that number? There's no actual papers stating that Hull City AFC are £45 million in debt?
Please stop quoting numbers as if they're facts please, it doesn't look good.
They're operating losses. The mechanism by which they're underwritten isn't known,
You refering to operating losses as debt is a guess. You're simply referring to operating losses.
29m a year with owner contributions which is what we've been operating at roughly. Acun's always insisting he'll push to the limit but that only works if he'll wipe the debt when he sells.
I'm ****e at numbers, operating losses/gains or whatever, i'm not an accountant. That's why I don't quote figures on here or guess them because I haven't a clue. I don't know what working profits/ losses are, all i'm asking for is irrefutable proof that our great Club are £45 million in debt.
Rover there's a difference between a guess - plucking a number out of the sky - and using the evidence and facts to form an estimate.
I don't know you're an account, so I wasn't trying to tell you your job, but that doesn't make you right anyway.
Just someone on here please give me actual proof our great Club is precisely £45 million debt please.
Who said precisely? I very clearly in my first reply to you said it wasn't a precise figure but would be roughly around that mark based on our operating losses and no significant player sales last year. Why are you splitting hairs? Do you feel better if I say we're between 40-50m in debt? Why does it make a difference to you?
If you knew someone who spent 100 quid a week on betting, and one week told you he'd lost 500 quid for the year, then the next week you asked him if he won any of his bets and he said no, do you need him to tell you he's now lost 600 quid for the year or can you work it out from the facts you have in front of you?
We spent 20m in 22/23 on operations, but offset with the sale of KLP, and were 25m in debt. We then added to the squad and increased our operations spend in 23/24 but didn't make a significant player sale. How could our operating loss have been smaller? As a result how could we not be in debt for roughly 45m?
The accounts will be out in February for us to look at it in black and white. I actually have a feeling it could be more than 45m as the final figure as Acun really pushed the boat out and we accepted unders on Greaves and Philogene to get them sold, which tells me he really had to get the losses down over the three year period.
It's all guess work and it's not helping anyone or anything, too many variables and unknowns. Only worth discussion when the official accounts come out.
FACT
FACT
People on here have quoted £45 million yourself included and not just to me in this conversation.
It doesn't mean anything to me, I'm just sick of seeing people quote these figures as if they was facts without any evidence.
Anyway, it's my bedtime, goodnight everyone, stay safe and never lose the faith.
CTID.
It doesn't mean anything to me, I'm just sick of seeing people quote these figures as if they was facts without any evidence.
Anyway, it's my bedtime, goodnight everyone, stay safe and never lose the faith.
CTID.
Firstly I don't have clients nor deal with the tax department, but you might want to look up what a forecast is if you think accountants don't constantly deal in the notion of a forward looking estimate based on trends and data.