VVD or Toby
- Thread starter lamby
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It's a very, very good point. If VVD doesn't come away from a game as my MOTM, then he's generally somewhere in my top three. His aerial ability in particular - in both boxes - is something else.
But on the flip side, I don't remember Toby making on average one rash/needless challenge per game on the edge of the box (or just inside, in the case of the Villa game). Sunderland deserved nothing out of yesterday's game, but it only needed Adam Johnson's free kick to be a couple of yards lower.
As I've said, I'm sitting firmly on the fence for now. The way he's going, VVD will win my vote come the end of the season. But Toby was so good last year, it's going to take more than three months of VVD to replace him. For now I have them as equals.
I think Toby was the finished article. VVD should be judged later in season, but if we are talking about more confidence that we would keep a clean sheet, then it's Toby for me.
Trouble is, we only see these players in the context of the sides they play in. Didn't we look so much better once once Ryan was back?
Trouble is, we only see these players in the context of the sides they play in. Didn't we look so much better once once Ryan was back?
I really liked Alderweireld, but he did have Schneiderlin and Wanyama playing ahead of him. Difficult to know if either van Dyke or Alderweireld would be so good at organising and leading when compared to Fonte.
Could you imagine that back seven: Forster, Clyne, Bertrand, Alderweireld, van Dyke, Schneiderlin and Wanyama :O
Could you imagine that back seven: Forster, Clyne, Bertrand, Alderweireld, van Dyke, Schneiderlin and Wanyama :O
I think alderweireld is just the better defender but vvd is more dangerous in the opposing box so shades it for me.
Stylistically, they'd be just about a perfect complement to one another: VVD attacking the ball defensively, with Toby's remarkable ability to read the flow of play providing cover. Heck, pair the two of them with Fonte and you could go three at the back and tell the wingbacks not to even bother coming back into their own half.
Alderweireld is a bit more my speed in terms of style of play.
I would always trade off the goal scored for the goal created when it comes to CB. And stopping a pass before it gets made over making the tackle.
That said, it is not like VVD is a total nut out there (that would be Caulker). 95% of the time both players do the same thing and effectively stop play. We are talking like one play a game where VVD does something flashy that ends up good or bad.
I would always trade off the goal scored for the goal created when it comes to CB. And stopping a pass before it gets made over making the tackle.
That said, it is not like VVD is a total nut out there (that would be Caulker). 95% of the time both players do the same thing and effectively stop play. We are talking like one play a game where VVD does something flashy that ends up good or bad.
Interesting take on both players. Agreed that Alderweireld would never do anything flashy, and VvD has already done several in open play. Some of which have come off and one or two that haven't. One incurred the Wrath of Koeman [reads like a film] on Saturday. It's the difference between each player. For me though they are that close that there is one remaining factor - Jose. Alderweireld never looked better than Fonte, as a CB, in my book. Indeed, on a couple of occasions, where Gardos came in instead, he was barely missed. I know that actually says a lot about Gardos's quality, and he's pretty good as well. However, already VvD has [apologies Fran] played better than Jose on a couple of occasions, in my opinion. So, although it's early, I'm going to say that VvD is the slightly better player all-round. Besides, I reckon VvD is going to be a huge player. Alderweireld will reliably stay pretty much as he is, I believe.
And Jose is the one constant in an evolving Saints.
If VVD brings the ball out a long way (because he is great on the ball for a CB and has pace) then someone ought to have the presence of mind to fill in for him at centre back for a minute or two. It's such a basic thing to do when your centre back has gone a long way forward with the ball.
Absolutely. It should be automatic. Even my Under 15s team know that if a CB comes out of "his hole" then someone has to fill it. I'd like to see him doing it more. He has done it on a handful of occasions, yet this is often the best way to break a stubborn team with two banks of 4/5 in front of their penalty area. Get the CB to bring it forward and eventually someone has to leave that wall and close him down. Then there is a gap to exploit.
People also tend to underestimate the CBs passing range and dribbling ability. VvD has both in spades. He will create a lot of chances by pushing up - and we have plenty of people who can drop in to back him up.
And don't forget, that when Virgil did this towards the end on Saturday, we already had 3 other CB's on the pitch (Yoshida, Fonte, and Caulker), and they did fill in quite well as it turned out.
Yeah, he is. There was a Saints corner during the Sunderland match and the ball got cleared long. And there was little JWP furthest back with Fletcher running full pelt at him. He calmly passed it on to Stekelenburg.
The midfield players all take it in turns, whoever is in the deep position. Granted, on Saturday we had JWP, Davis and Clasie doing the rotation, so height was a problem [hence Caulker at the end], but they all dropped into place when needed. Steven Davis is so brilliant at covering, given that he's often the furthest forward of a midfield three.