Match Day Thread Vs Arsenal (A)

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I note nobody wants to address the fabinho performance......

The guy was all over the shop positionally cos there was so many options for arsenal but he was getting into poor positions. That last foul/accident with Ozil was an example. Ozil ain't quick btw.

He got wrong side and trod on Ozil try to get back.

He open a couple of arsenal players during the course of the night and got away with it, which is a good thing I suppose. He nailed mkhitaryan and xhaka. His yellow was one too many, too soon after last one.

Klopp was losing his but at him for his really bad forward balls, tbh I dunno quite what klopp expected from the guy there.

The simple fact is arsenal over ran him.

 

[Diego]

This is a match which we should have won. As genuine title challengers we had to win and to be honest we had enough chances to score a few goals. When we had that counterattack soon after the first goal and the cross came in for Mane to tap it in, I thought Game Over!! We really should have won comfortably in the end. We have let a genuine opportunity slip away.

We have to wish for City to lose as many points as possible. That annual moment is approaching when we face that usual dilemma: Do we really want the mancs to win? Next weekend, City have to lose (a draw won’t be good enough if they win tomorrow) against their local rivals. Would everyone of us wish City to lose?
For me, there is no problem. The red mancs don’t present a threat to the title and if we are serious then we want City to be significantly pegged back. A red Win in the Manc derby.

I agree with you mate, we are a massive 7 points behind top spot with only 27 games left to play. Let us all hope we can beat all the other title contenders for you eh

 

[Diego]

he got the call wrong because he didn't know the rules. there is no other explanation.

Was Mane attempting to play the ball when he chased after it?

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Or we could wait to see an angle from linos angle and see if it's obvious or not.

It's clear mane was miles off originally and kept going. Lino didn't flag when firmino hit it. Therefore I can only conclude that lino felt mane was always off and was ahead.

So while the armchair brigade can debate that off replays in line the thing is lino was not in line for that phase. Until you see what he saw... well...




P.s.

A) we had it flagged off

B) we had several half decent chances from set piece. Vvd and firmino missed them.

C) we led 1-0


So.... this offside wasn't even the critical issue in game

Sorry it's just convienent excuse to cover us not being where we want to be.

And

We are top of table for tonight and unbeaten v other top 6 sides. You'd swear we lost or somethibg

If Mane was deemed any time to be 'offside' (note the difference between being in an offside position, and being offside) then Bobby's 'goal' would not had stood had it gone in. It's that simple. When Bobby played the ball, Mane was behind it - onside. There is no way on God's green earth that the lino did not see that - he was at least a yard behind Bobby's outstretched foot. Ergo, he has presumed - wrongly, like yourself and others - that because he was offside in the initial phase (but not gaining an advantage) he became active when he put in the rebound, and that would have been the case, had he been forward of Bobby when he played the ball.

I remember having this out on this board years ago when we played preston in a cup tie. Memeory serves me right, we got the winner on a breakaway with Torres and AN Other ran forward on goal, with Torres several times running ahead, BUT when the ball was passed to him he was online, albeit forward of every preston player bar their goalie. Oh how this board and whole of social media erupted (with the usual manc suspects coming over mob-handed), but the rule is clear - you just cannot be offside either level or behind the ball. And no ****ing way did that lino 'miss' that.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I agree with you mate, we are a massive 7 points behind top spot with only 27 games left to play. Let us all hope we can beat all the other title contenders for you eh

That last minute winner really revived you

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Was Mane attempting to play the ball when he chased after it?

How is that relevant? Bobby's 'goal would have stood, ergo Mane was not deemed to have been interfering with play until he put the rebound in - from an onside position after reacting to a ball he was behind when it was played. This really isn't difficult, even for you.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

If Mane was deemed any time to be 'offside' (note the difference between being in an offside position, and being offside) then Bobby's 'goal' would not had stood had it gone in. It's that simple. When Bobby played the ball, Mane was behind it - onside. There is no way on God's green earth that the lino did not see that - he was at least a yard behind Bobby's outstretched foot. Ergo, he has presumed - wrongly, like yourself and others - that because he was offside in the initial phase (but not gaining an advantage) he became active when he put in the rebound, and that would have been the case, had he been forward of Bobby when he played the ball.

I remember having this out on this board years ago when we played preston in a cup tie. Memeory serves me right, we got the winner on a breakaway with Torres and AN Other ran forward on goal, with Torres several times running ahead, BUT when the ball was passed to him he was online, albeit forward of every preston player bar their goalie. Oh how this board and whole of social media erupted (with the usual manc suspects coming over mob-handed), but the rule is clear - you just cannot be offside either level or behind the ball. And no ****ing way did that lino 'miss' that.

How can you be sure what he saw without seeing an angle from his point of view?

We're you this sure seeing chance first time live?

I can only conclude that as lino didnt flag until mane touched it that goal would have stood had firmino scored it.... So again how can you be 1000% sure of what lino saw as if you look at line of the offside when ball was played by firmino the lino was running back by was clearly not in line as he was in line with original play and can't be in two places at once.

It could be the case that it was physically impossible for his angle to show mane behind ball.... how do we k ow it we see it?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

This is a var discussion. Not giving anyone any benefit of doubt for the live one glimpse of a tion call.

Get var inand this is no longer a decision.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

How can you be sure what he saw without seeing an angle from his point of view?

We're you this sure seeing chance first time live?

I can only conclude that as lino didnt flag until mane touched it that goal would have stood had firmino scored it.... So again how can you be 1000% sure of what lino saw as if you look at line of the offside when ball was played by firmino the lino was running back by was clearly not in line as he was in line with original play and can't be in two places at once.

It could be the case that it was physically impossible for his angle to show mane behind ball.... how do we k ow it we see it?

I most certainly was. Even watching on a tablet in work I screamed 'he's behind the ball - how can he be offside!'. And that was before any of the commentators latched on to it, and before the TV panel ref agreed. as said, I clearly remember the Preston game. As with the goal kick thing above, it's amazing how many people just do not know the rules of offside, but think they do if they just understand that bit about the last two players. Also, it ****ing clear on a 10" tablet with a bad stream that he was behind the ball. as said, that supersedes everything except a physical foul.

 

[Diego]

How is that relevant? Bobby's 'goal would have stood, ergo Mane was not deemed to have been interfering with play until he put the rebound in - from an onside position after reacting to a ball he was behind when it was played. This really isn't difficult, even for you.

Ffs, "Bobby" didn't score a goal and Mane attempted to play it while in an off-side position. The goal wasn't flagged off-side, Mane was from the original through ball.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sadio-manes-offside-goal-during-13529852

Reasonably good view linesman positions and ball in each position.

Mane is clearly off in phase 1. Linesman didn t flag this.

Linesman is clearly behind play as ball moves faster than anyone can. Was his angle such thag he can see who is behind ball... i would like to see from his side.



Does this actually matter as we led in the game and conceded a goals in sevond half?

Imo this is a var discussion

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Ffs, "Bobby" didn't score a goal and Mane attempted to play it while in an off-side position. The goal wasn't flagged off-side, Mane was from the original through ball.

But he wasn't flagged.

The issue here is last week a guy was given a goal cos the ball touched vvd. That was called phase 2 play.

Here we have confusion as to what decision has been made due to flag only going up after ball is touched.

It's inconsistency driving discussion and it's a var discussion imo.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Ffs, "Bobby" didn't score a goal and Mane attempted to play it while in an off-side position. The goal wasn't flagged off-side, Mane was from the original through ball.

No he's not, you ****ing crank, otherwise as soon as Bobby played the ball he would have been deemed offside. Read the ****ing rules - you are not deemed to be offside if you are in an offside position - Bobby's 'goal' would have stood had it gone in. the lino only raised his flag after mane put the rebound in. I anticipate you'll try some kind of faux, dexterous wordplay to keep this going all night (or what you consider to be wordplay), and I suppose I'll be doing the politics thread a favour in keeping you off there for a bit, but just bore off now: you are wrong.

 

[Diego]

No he's not, you ****ing crank, otherwise as soon as Bobby played the ball he would have been deemed offside. Read the ****ing rules - you are not deemed to be offside if you are in an offside position - Bobby's 'goal' would have stood had it gone in. the lino only raised his flag after mane put the rebound in. I anticipate you'll try some kind of faux, dexterous wordplay to keep this going all night (or what you consider to be wordplay), and I suppose I'll be doing the politics thread a favour in keeping you off there for a bit, but just bore off now: you are wrong.

If the perceived injustice makes you rage I am all for it

 

[saintanton]

The goal should have stood - the call was incorrect. An analysis into why the call was made may be academically interesting but is pointless.

 

[jaffaSlot]

Already played away to Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal. Plus home to City. That's a plus

 

[Bumps]

No we didn't.

The thing is, the ref is god so it doesn't matter what any of us think. It's not a goal unless he gives a goal. End of.

That linesman did his best, didn't try to rob us at all. End of. If he got a marginal call wrong cos the guy was offside and kept going and from his angle he couldn't see the ball what half a yard max.. max.. ahead.

Normally I would agree with you but the point is we have not been done by a marginal call we have been done by a professional who does not know the rules (btw z I think you muddling up goal kicks off ground and out of hands you are right out of hands Astro right off ground) for me it’s just frustrating cause just like the mane red ( ) it will happen. Again this season and won’t get called wrong though not as often as the mane red
- think I need the shrink

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Normally I would agree with you but the point is we have not been done by a marginal call we have been done by a professional who does not know the rules (btw z I think you muddling up goal kicks off ground and out of hands you are right out of hands Astro right off ground) for me it’s just frustrating cause just like the mane red ( ) it will happen. Again this season and won’t get called wrong though not as often as the mane red
- think I need the shrink

Oi, that was me who brought that up!

Btw, that **** diego - remember when he did this last year when Vardy scored that goal at Anfield when the ball hadn't gone out of the penalty area from a goal kick? Just wouldn't back down until we practically had to get a FIFA ruling on it. Tithead.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Btw everyone, do not forget the preface to the office rule - being in an offside position in itself does NOT mean you're offside.

 

[Diego]

Another relevant part of the off side rule

Gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has
"- rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
- been deliberately saved by any opponent" [1]

Therefore if "Bobby" had passed the ball to Mane behind him he may have been classed on side, however the ball rebounded off the woodwork to arrive at him so he was off side.