Off Topic Very good programme on C4.

[Tel (they/them)]

When we were in Germany, for the World Cup, I made a point of taking my 2 adult sons to Courtroom 600 and http://museums.nuremberg.de/documentation-centre/topics/permanent-exhibition.html
There's also an interesting personal opinion here,
http://lewweinsteinauthorblog.com/2...ry-glorification-of-the-rise-of-adolf-hitler/

The exhibition is harrowing and a little frightening but I thought it would be a valuable experience fr them.
At the very end of the exhibition was a brief 'explanation' that it was all the fault of a small bunch of Nazi, not actually German, madmen
The 'reason' given for invading Poland was that Germany was 'desperately short of living space'

We laughed about that as we drove through hundreds of miles of open countryside from one match venue to the next.

That blog with the emails is interesting, I just read about a third of it, will read the rest later.

What did you make of the exhibition, did it suggest that Germans were fascinated by Hitler? It doesn't surprise me that so many people just accept that the Germans were scared into supporting Hitler, as it seems a logical humane explanation for the way they followed him, but it's too convenient isn't it? It's just as likely huge sections of the German population were convinced and excited by the prospect of ethnic cleansing and them being the ultimate power.

Sort of backs up, what Bri and I were chatting about, public (Not just Germans) turning a blind eye, then claiming they didn't know a thing about the labour camps, pretending to be shocked when the inevitable 'victory' backfired.

 

[Smug in Boots]

That blog with the emails is interesting, I just read about a third of it, will read the rest later.

What did you make of the exhibition, did it suggest that Germans were fascinated by Hitler? It doesn't surprise me that so many people just accept that the Germans were scared into supporting Hitler, as it seems a logical humane explanation for the way they followed him, but it's too convenient isn't it? It's just as likely huge sections of the German population were convinced and excited by the prospect of ethnic cleansing and them being the ultimate power.

Sort of backs up, what Bri and I were chatting about, public (Not just Germans) turning a blind eye, then claiming they didn't know a thing about the labour camps, pretending to be shocked when the inevitable 'victory' backfired.

The overriding impression, despite the endless friendliness, was that they weren't sorry to have started the war ........ just sorry to have lost.
They do have a fascination with power & dominance so I'm sure Hitler simply played on that and allowed the Germans to exercise their natural feelings.
I have no doubt that, despite the endless protestation, they'd have another go if they thought they'd win.

We found accommodation with German families, in exchange for a week at our place in Nice, in a scheme called 'Staying With Friends'.
It was a very strange experience mate.

We mainly stayed in family homes but were 'billeted' in a sports complex outside of Nuremberg before the Trinidad & Tobago match.
This was a very small town but the facilities were incredible, 2 training pitches one of which was floodlit, an indoor pitch, underground shooting range etc.
The bar & restaurant were heavily subsidised and they had the biggest screen I've ever seen for the games.

In the corner, every night, were a group of very elderly men who never seemed to pay for anything. The dozens of fit young men & lads, who played in the different levels of teams, seemed to dote on them and were always taking them drinks etc. When we pinned up our English flag, along with the Mexican & others, the atmosphere was horrendous.

I can joke about it now but it was easy to imagine that we were in a bad situation. There was something not quite right that a small countryside town had facilities many league clubs, in this country, would envy.
We weren't terrified but it's easy to see how the endless threat of 'something' would unnerve people.

We couldn't wait to get out of there tbh.

 

[Billy Death]

I've been to Germany many times.
Hamburg for leisure when on leave from Luneberg Heath & the countryside surrounding Nuremberg for work.
Had some cracking times with the German people & found them very hospitable, nice folk.
When over there for work we never had to pay for a thing.

I know we can't forget what happened but you can't blame German people today for what their grandfathers did.
Just a thought.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

The overriding expression, despite the endless friendliness, was that they weren't sorry to have started the war ........ just sorry to have lost.
They do have a fascination with power & dominance so I'm sure Hitler simply played on that and allowed the Germans to exercise their natural feelings.
I have no doubt that, despite the endless protestation, they'd have another go if they thought they'd win.

We found accommodation with German families, in exchange for a week at our place in Nice, in a scheme called 'Staying With Friends'.
It was a very strange experience mate.

We mainly stayed in family homes but were 'billeted' in a sports complex outside of Nuremberg before the Trinidad & Tobago match.
This was a very small town but the facilities were incredible, 2 training pitches one of which was floodlit, an indoor pitch, underground shooting range etc.
The bar & restaurant were heavily subsidised and they had the biggest screen I've ever seen for the games.

In the corner, every night, were a group of very elderly men who never seemed to pay for anything. The dozens of fit young men & lads, who played in the different levels of teams, seemed to dote on them and were always taking them drinks etc. When we pinned up our English flag, along with the Mexican & others, the atmosphere was horrendous.

I can joke about it now but it was easy to imagine that we were in a bad situation. There was something not quite right that a small countryside town had facilities many league clubs, in this country, would envy.
We weren't terrified but it's easy to see how the endless threat of 'something' would unnerve people.

We couldn't wait to get out of there tbh.

I'd imagine there's plenty of small towns in that country that harbour a lot of hate, the poorer cities in any country generally look for people to blame for their misfortune.

I've been in remote Romanian and Hungarian towns on business in the past and some of that lot quite frankly scare the **** out of me. They blame all their problems on black men, although they don't call them black men!

I had five grand in cash on me in Romania, as business expenses, no safe in my 'hotel', it was awful walking around with it for a week, I felt like I had a huge target on my back.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I've been to Germany many times.
Hamburg for leisure when on leave from Luneberg Heath & the countryside surrounding Nuremberg for work.
Had some cracking times with the German people & found them very hospitable, nice folk.
When over there for work we never had to pay for a thing.

I know we can't forget what happened but you can't blame German people today for what their grandfathers did.
Just a thought.

I don't blame them, for what happened Billy ...... I just feel they have a huge admiration for that generation that borders on something unpleasant.
They have no choice but to say that they regret the past but I do believe they see themselves as a superior race.

 

[Billy Death]

I don't blame them, for what happened Billy ...... I just feel they have a huge admiration for that generation that borders on something unpleasant.
They have no choice but to say that they regret the past but I do believe they see themselves as a superior race.

Well, let's face facts mate.
The average German soldier in WWI & WWII was no different to the average British Tommy.
They didn't want to be there anymore than our lads did.
They called the Christmas truce in 1916, that proves it to me.
A game of football in the mud of no mans land, swapping gifts with each other.
They were just soldiers who showed ultimate humility imo.

I was proud of my grandad, I expect German folk are proud of theirs too.
I'm not talking about the SS or the Nazi's, I'm talking about the normal squaddie.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I don't blame them, for what happened Billy ...... I just feel they have a huge admiration for that generation that borders on something unpleasant.
They have no choice but to say that they regret the past but I do believe they see themselves as a superior race.

In Paphos, there was a group of Germans who hated us as we always got preferential treatment from the staff around the pool, as we were nice to them and the Germans hated it.

They hated us by the end of their holiday. My mate, who's a pro goalkeeper was with us, Germany had lost 2-1 in the Euro 2012 semi's the night before and he was 'Practising his dives' in the (adult only, ironically) pool, every time one went past him he said 'Oh no Balotelli' (who scored the 2 for Italy) and they were fuming, they packed up after an hour and went to the 'family pool'.

****ing sour-faced ****ers, need to liven up on holidays at the very least.

 

[Billy Death]

In Paphos, there was a group of Germans who hated us as we always got preferential treatment from the staff around the pool, as we were nice to them and the Germans hated it.

They hated us by the end of their holiday. My mate, who's a pro goalkeeper was with us, Germany had lost 2-1 in the Euro 2012 semi's the night before and he was 'Practising his dives' in the (adult only, ironically) pool, every time one went past him he said 'Oh no Balotelli' (who scored the 2 for Italy) and they were fuming, they packed up after an hour and went to the 'family pool'.

****ing sour-faced ****ers, need to liven up on holidays at the very least.

Never had any bother with them whilst abroad.
That said, I'm not one for piss farting around the pool.
I'd rather be in the bars & the old towns.

 

[MrRAWhite]

It was shocking but the way they filmed it was fascinating to me, it felt at times like I was there, especially with the British footage.

Can't believe some people say it didn't happen.

Unbelievable what some of these conspiracy theorists will come out with..

 

[Smug in Boots]

Well, let's face facts mate.
The average German soldier in WWI & WWII was no different to the average British Tommy.
They didn't want to be there anymore than our lads did.
They called the Christmas truce in 1916, that proves it to me.
A game of football in the mud of no mans land, swapping gifts with each other.
They were just soldiers who showed ultimate humility imo.

I was proud of my grandad, I expect German folk are proud of theirs too.
I'm not talking about the SS or the Nazi's, I'm talking about the normal squaddie.

My Grandad was in the first war and my Dad in the second.
From listening to them and reading extensively I'd have to say, imo, there is a difference between the armies of both nations.

There were around half a million SS, Gestapo & other 'specialists' in 1938/9.
That's not just a handful of maniacs, they were turning people down who wanted to rise from the ranks to join them.

Although it's wrong to stereotype an entire nation, I do believe there is a 'national character'. For me, it's impossible to believe the Italians, Belgians, Dutch, as examples, could ever be capable of such a systematic & sustained campaign of brutality aimed directly at the civilian population.

Nor do I believe the British would've turned a blind eye to the extermination of millions of innocent people in the name of Queen & country.

 

[MrRAWhite]

Must say that I have met some cracking Germans with great sense of humour in my time, as well as a fair share of miserable horrible twats..I could say the same about the Brits as well..

 

[Billy Death]

My Grandad was in the first war and my Dad in the second.
From listening to them and reading extensively I'd have to say, imo, there is a difference between the armies of both nations.

There were around half a million SS, Gestapo & other 'specialists' in 1938/9.
That's not just a handful of maniacs, they were turning people down who wanted to rise from the ranks to join them.

Although it's wrong to stereotype an entire nation, I do believe there is a 'national character'. For me, it's impossible to believe the Italians, Belgians, Dutch, as examples, could ever be capable of such a systematic & sustained campaign of brutality aimed directly at the civilian population.

Nor do I believe the British would've turned a blind eye to the extermination of millions of innocent people in the name of the country.

Watch All Quiet On The Western Front.
It gives it from German soldiers point of view.
As I stated quite clearly, I was talking about the average soldier not the SS or Gesfuckingstapo.
Do you understand now?

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Never had any bother with them whilst abroad.
That said, I'm not one for piss farting around the pool.
I'd rather be in the bars & the old towns.

Pissing and farting is usually frowned upon around the pool anyway.

Hungover, there's nothing better for me than a pool and a gradual reintroduction to the substance that made me feel that way, it's very cyclical on holiday for me. I'm a simple man on holiday, no culture at all, just rest and fun.

I've never had any trouble with Germans but I've never had any great times with them either, on holiday. I don't not-like them I just don't envy them the way they think we all should.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Watch All Quiet On The Western Front.
It gives it from German soldiers point of view.

I have and I'm sure there are many different aspects to this kind of thing.
That film, from the book, concerns a period when the Germans were being hammered and had 'lost the war' to all intent.

By that time the troops had been away from home for years and were sick of it.
The only hope was to be captured or run away.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Unbelievable what some of these conspiracy theorists will come out with..

I'm sure I read recently that the BBC asked if it was "Time to lay the holocaust to rest".

There's some ridiculous theories out there, most of them change the parameters of their opinions when disproved, rather than just admitting they're wrong.

 

[Billy Death]

Pissing and farting is usually frowned upon around the pool anyway.

Hungover, there's nothing better for me than a pool and a gradual reintroduction to the substance that made me feel that way, it's very cyclical on holiday for me. I'm a simple man on holiday, no culture at all, just rest and fun.

I've never had any trouble with Germans but I've never had any great times with them either, on holiday. I don't not-like them I just don't envy them the way they think we all should.

I find the Yanks like that.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I find the Yanks like that.

Yank girls love the Brits though Billy, it's like taking 'candy' from a baby.