US Election

[brb]

What stinks for me is the occupation of the West Bank that started in the 60s during the 6 day war. Initially it might be argued that the occupation was necessary as a defensive measure against Arab aggression ... but they haven't just stayed there ever since, they have built settlements for Israelis against all principles of International Law and the West has just turned a blind eye... whilst rapidly mobilizing and intervening when Iraq (and the ill judged Islamic caliphate (ISIS)) made similar attempts at land grabbing in the region ... not really difficult to see why the Palestinians hate Israel and the West, is it?

I don't know enough to answer your question. So where did the Israelis come from that now occupy the settlements, and being subject to possible atttack if I remember rightly in the early days, why would you move to a hostile area (settlement), unless of course they came from an hostile area originally (the Israelis that is).

 

[Edelman]

What stinks for me is the occupation of the West Bank that started in the 60s during the 6 day war. Initially it might be argued that the occupation was necessary as a defensive measure against Arab aggression ... but they haven't just stayed there ever since, they have built settlements for Israelis against all principles of International Law and the West has just turned a blind eye... whilst rapidly mobilizing and intervening when Iraq (and the ill judged Islamic caliphate (ISIS)) made similar attempts at land grabbing in the region ... not really difficult to see why the Palestinians hate Israel and the West, is it?

The power if the Mighty Financials might have something to do with it .

 

[Edelman]

I don't know enough to answer your question. So where did the Israelis come from that now occupy the settlements, and being subject to possible atttack if I remember rightly in the early days, why would you move to a hostile area (settlement), unless of course they came from an hostile area originally (the Israelis that is).

@aberdude needed here I think !

 

[brb]

@aberdude needed here I think !

oh no ffs

 

[FosseFilberto]

I don't know enough to answer your question. So where did the Israelis come from that now occupy the settlements, and being subject to possible atttack if I remember rightly in the early days, why would you move to a hostile area (settlement), unless of course they came from an hostile area originally (the Israelis that is).

The Israeli's in the settlement would either be from Israel itself or Jewish immigrants to Israel from other areas of the world. My understanding is that the Israeli government offers considerable incentives (financial or property based) to settlers ... they are literally expanding Israel with the policy... they maintain a formidable military presence in the West Bank to protect the settlements ...

 

[brb]

The Israeli's in the settlement would either be from Israel itself or Jewish immigrants to Israel from other areas of the world. My understanding is that the Israeli government offers considerable incentives (financial or property based) to settlers ... they are literally expanding Israel with the policy... they maintain a formidable military presence in the West Bank to protect the settlements ...

So why is the West friends with Israel and not the Palestinians?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So why is the West friends with Israel and not the Palestinians?

We’re excellent schmoozers.

 

[Archers Road]

I don't know enough to answer your question. So where did the Israelis come from that now occupy the settlements, and being subject to possible atttack if I remember rightly in the early days, why would you move to a hostile area (settlement), unless of course they came from an hostile area originally (the Israelis that is).

Lots came from Russia, which could be classed as a hostile place, even for Russians.

Quite a number of the most aggressively expansionist Israelis seem to have come from the USA, however. Where religious nutters of every persuasion tend to proliferate.

 

[FosseFilberto]

So why is the West friends with Israel and not the Palestinians?

Aberdude could tell you ... but the shortened version would be the US relationship with Israel ... lot of powerful Jewish influence in the USA.

 

[brb]

Lots came from Russia, which could be classed as a hostile place, even for Russians.

Quite a number of the most aggressively expansionist Israelis seem to have come from the USA, however. Where religious nutters of every persuasion tend to proliferate.

Funnily enough I was going to mention Russia when Fosse was giving me the explanation. I remember seeing some war documentary from the Russian perspective, and two varying decisions on whether Russia should push closer to western border or hold the territory further back, because of certain weaknesses that became exposed. Whereas the vast expanse of land from a non aerial perspective, would wear European troops down, before they even got near to what would officially be classed as their border. As you can tell I can't really remember it, but it made loads of sense the way they explained it at the time, it also made me understand why Russia get sensitive if we start interfering in the political movements in countries that border them. It also made me think, that is what the Israelis are doing in a sense.

Hence the old USSR I suppose.

 

[Archers Road]

Funnily enough I was going to mention Russia when Fosse was giving me the explanation. I remember seeing some war documentary from the Russian perspective, and two varying decisions on whether Russia should push closer to western border or hold the territory further back, because of certain weaknesses that became exposed. Whereas the vast expanse of land from a non aerial perspective, would wear European troops down, before they even got near to what would officially be classed as their border. As you can tell I can't really remember it, but it made loads of sense the way they explained it at the time, it also made me understand why Russia get sensitive if we start interfering in the political movements in countries that border them. It also made me think, that is what the Israelis are doing in a sense.

Hence the old USSR I suppose.

Russian leaders have always been just as paranoid about the West as the western leaders have been about Russia; and with good reason. The German army was at the gates of Moscow in 1941, and on the banks of the Volga in 1942. Only her vast size and ferocious winters saved her.

And since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have lost all their territorial buffers, including the Ukraine. There are good strategical reasons why Putin seized the Crimea and is desperate to retain influence in Ukraine. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of Russian foreign policy, I think it’s important to try to see things from the Russian perspective. There’s no doubt they’ve always felt threatened by the West. Before the Nazis, Napoleon occupied Moscow; Sweden once occupied St Petersburg. Britain and France invaded Crimea. And Afghanistan is right on Russia’s borders.

 

[brb]

Russian leaders have always been just as paranoid about the West as the western leaders have been about Russia; and with good reason. The German army was at the gates of Moscow in 1941, and on the banks of the Volga in 1942. Only her vast size and ferocious winters saved her.

And since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have lost all their territorial buffers, including the Ukraine. There are good strategical reasons why Putin seized the Crimea and is desperate to retain influence in Ukraine. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of Russian foreign policy, I think it’s important to try to see things from the Russian perspective. There’s no doubt they’ve always felt threatened by the West. Before the Nazis, Napoleon occupied Moscow; Sweden once occupied St Petersburg. Britain and France invaded Crimea. And Afghanistan is right on Russia’s borders.

That's it mate, some of what you said brought the documentary back to me. You're right it was the harsh winters that saved them along with the vast size. Hence as you say the importance of retaining influence in Ukraine, it's all understandable when you see it from their side of the fence.

 

[aberdude]

@aberdude needed here I think !

This forum isnt the place for truth.

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[aberdude]

trump zionist. biden zionist..................................just another mask change guys

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[aberdude]

c ya laters..........**** shower shave social

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[PINKIE]

What stinks for me is the occupation of the West Bank that started in the 60s during the 6 day war. Initially it might be argued that the occupation was necessary as a defensive measure against Arab aggression ... but they haven't just stayed there ever since, they have built settlements for Israelis against all principles of International Law and the West has just turned a blind eye... whilst rapidly mobilizing and intervening when Iraq (and the ill judged Islamic caliphate (ISIS)) made similar attempts at land grabbing in the region ... not really difficult to see why the Palestinians hate Israel and the West, is it?

Probably the most glaring example of an illegal occupation not only ignored, but aided and abetted by the West.

If that were any other country illegally occupying, settling the land and oppressing the native population, the west would be threatening war with them. Look at what happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The ethnic situation is not that different in places like Iraq/Syria/Turkey where Kurdish people are displaced and have no 'homeland' as is the case with the Jewish claim to Palestine.

That said, the only real solution to this is a two state region. Yet Palestine is denied its rights to this and oppressed by Israel, and backed by the US and the west with arms, finance and political influence.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Probably the most glaring example of an illegal occupation not only ignored, but aided and abetted by the West.

If that were any other country illegally occupying, settling the land and oppressing the native population, the west would be threatening war with them. Look at what happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The ethnic situation is not that different in places like Iraq/Syria/Turkey where Kurdish people are displaced and have no 'homeland' as is the case with the Jewish claim to Palestine.

That said, the only real solution to this is a two state region. Yet Palestine is denied its rights to this and oppressed by Israel, and backed by the US and the west with arms, finance and political influence.

The UN have tried to do something about it or make a statement, at least, but the US always blocks it, IIRC. 43 times, going by a quick search.

 

[PINKIE]

The UN have tried to do something about it or make a statement, at least, but the US always blocks it, IIRC. 43 times, going by a quick search.

And the west wonder why Hamas is elected to govern in Gaza ...

 

[Solid Air]

Probably the most glaring example of an illegal occupation not only ignored, but aided and abetted by the West.

If that were any other country illegally occupying, settling the land and oppressing the native population, the west would be threatening war with them. Look at what happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The ethnic situation is not that different in places like Iraq/Syria/Turkey where Kurdish people are displaced and have no 'homeland' as is the case with the Jewish claim to Palestine.

That said, the only real solution to this is a two state region. Yet Palestine is denied its rights to this and oppressed by Israel, and backed by the US and the west with arms, finance and political influence.

i'm sorry but that is bollocks in the sense that all sorts of countries occupy land that may not be theirs but if you are
a ) strategically important enough
or
b ) strong enough
no one does anything about it apart from words .

 

[PINKIE]

i'm sorry but that is bollocks in the sense that all sorts of countries occupy land that may not be theirs but if you are
a ) strategically important enough
or
b ) strong enough
no one does anything about it apart from words .

In what way is it bollocks then ?