US Election

[Saf]

What's troubling is there's equal weighting on both sides. 70m turned out for Trump, fcking hell that's huge. I said to Diego a week ago the outcome I was hoping for from this election was a return to unity, some calming down of the hate and divisions. But the election's over and from what I'm seeing these divisions aren'tt going to simply die with Trump losing.

The country is beyond that. I have a horrible feeling this has to be played out. They have to go through the worst imaginable to come out the other side. I think there'll be a lot more death and destruction before this is anywhere near over and the country reconciles itself.

America, the most powerful nation in the world in 2020 ffs!

I really hope he does mate, as if he doesn’t his base will continue to bubble. If he comes out and says they’ve looked at everything and it is what it is, then it’ll arguably be his finest hour, and it’ll help calm things done over there. But I just can’t see it due to his obvious and extreme narcissism.

I can only think he has such huge support still, because he plays the patriot card. For me he broke the rules of patriotism when he turned the troops on his own people, for me, that was the most damning thing ever, even his own defence secretary spoke out against it. That changed the whole situation for me from being patriort to being a tyrant dictator. He would argue it was because of the rioting on the streets, and although I get that, his job as a president is to listen, he didn't listen hence a break down in law and order commenced. He is so devisive it could create a civil war, but for me it would feel more like a race war, because America clearly has some very deep issues.

I hope it doesn't come down to that extreme situation because then that raises all sorts of issues about what China and Russia could take advantage of in the mayhem. It could potentially unstabilise the globe, not just America. I'm not sure how the race/civil war would work out because in states like Florida the latino and black vote is on the rise for the republicans. It would be complicated as **** with different militias all over the place.

 

[Treble]

I can only think he has such huge support still, because he plays the patriot card. For me he broke the rules of patriotism when he turned the troops on his own people, for me, that was the most damning thing ever, even his own defence secretary spoke out against it. That changed the whole situation for me from being patriort to being a tyrant dictator. He would argue it was because of the rioting on the streets, and although I get that, his job as a president is to listen, he didn't listen hence a break down in law and order commenced. He is so devisive is could create a civil war, but for me it would feel more like a race war, because America clearly has some very deep issues.

He isn't going anywhere either. Anyone who thinks he's going to just disappear like former presidents in terms of his influence is kidding themselves. He won't be going anywhere, his twitter account aint going to fall silent, and the press won't stop reporting on it. Everyone loves a ****show and this will just get worse now he's out of office.

I personally can't find any redeeming qualities in the bloke so for me there was no watershed moment like the one you mention. He is one of those figures in history who makes a population think the wrong thing is the right thing. We can think of a fair few like that in history. And it usually only ends one way, in country(s) burning. The problem is you have people on the other side who still fail to see the genuine hardships and feeling of injustice which have driven millions of disaffected to believe Trump as one of their own. Had they done more to reach out to those who were marginalised or disillusioned we might not be where we are. And I hope to fck they wake up and get their act together now they've been given a chance... instead of calling some poor bloke a white supremacist just for asking his neighbours to turn the music down!

 

[Diego]

I just googled the question you had in your quote but asked in a different way "does a half term count" was all I looked up and boom top link

they put it to him in a convoluted way " if Biden has to stand down in one or two years would his replacement still get a crack at two full terms after making him the first 10 year POTUS."

and its not first 10 year potus either

They may have said since Trueman tbf, i was driving and only half listening.
The guy sounded pretty clued up with all his previous answers and that was chucked in at the end.
5live rarely use gonks except for balance when that is the only opposing view they can find, this guy was actually very pro-Biden from the bits i heard and seemed to know his stuff.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

oh and FDR served 3 terms and 80 something days, he got elected for a 4th but we know how that went so it has happened before, just not when limits existed

If she does 2 years or less in that term, then yes she can go for another 2

The amendment was in 47. Trump can stand again like Grover Cleveland did in the 1880's. He won't, as he'll cut a deal about going to prison.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

He isn't going anywhere either. Anyone who thinks he's going to just disappear like former presidents in terms of his influence is kidding themselves. He won't be going anywhere, his twitter account aint going to fall silent, and the press won't stop reporting on it. Everyone loves a ****show and this will just get worse now he's out of office.

I personally can't find any redeeming qualities in the bloke so for me there was no watershed moment like the one you mention. He is one of those figures in history who makes a population think the wrong thing is the right thing. We can think of a fair few like that in history. And it usually only ends one way, in country(s) burning. The problem is you have people on the other side who still fail to see the genuine hardships and feeling of injustice which have driven millions of disaffected to believe Trump as one of their own. Had they done more to reach out to those who were marginalised or disillusioned we might not be where we are. And I hope to fck they wake up and get their act together now they've been given a chance... instead of calling some poor bloke a white supremacist just for asking his neighbours to turn the music down!

The man is mentally ill. He is incapacitated and should be replaced until January by Pence. The idea that he is anywhere near the button is a national security issue.

 

[Saf]

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[O'l Gravy Leg.]

Brb"Trump turned the troops on his own people"
The only thing I can think of is the false claims of "unmarked cars n troops snatching up people" or the police using their own tactic to disperse crowds at the white house,president doesn't involved with police operations on the ground. Would be like Bill Gates interfering in customer support call to microsoft

There was no evil unmarked death squads, unmarked cars are bog standard, it's how you catch people who dont want to be caught, they were fed police and federal marshals in kit, snatching up people they identified prior as ****ing around, mostly Antifa, who even started throwing real explosive devices at the court house


and Brb "he only has support because he plays the patriot card" ?
Astounding willful ignorance of even basic elementary understanding of what the situation actually is in America. when you have 60+ million supporters, of varying degrees of support, many admit they didnt want to but felt compelled to, with big support in almost every state bar the extremely blue ones and even then still a fair bit outside of the cities. Things like regulations on land, economy and guns and the economy before COVID. Gas prices 2 bucks-ish a gallon

From coast to coast these millions vary in how they see the world and all of them want to like the country they live in. All lumped into a single nice category that you can use to denigrate them.

Ugh the stupidity

 

[O'l Gravy Leg.]

They may have said since Trueman tbf, i was driving and only half listening.
The guy sounded pretty clued up with all his previous answers and that was chucked in at the end.
5live rarely use gonks except for balance when that is the only opposing view they can find, this guy was actually very pro-Biden from the bits i heard and seemed to know his stuff.

You should have drove over there and cracked some heads at the radio station

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Brb"Trump turned the troops on his own people"
The only thing I can think of is the false claims of "unmarked cars n troops snatching up people" or the police using their own tactic to disperse crowds at the white house,president doesn't involved with police operations on the ground. Would be like Bill Gates interfering in customer support call to microsoft

There was no evil unmarked death squads, unmarked cars are bog standard, it's how you catch people who dont want to be caught, they were fed police and federal marshals in kit, snatching up people they identified prior as ****ing around, mostly Antifa


and Brb "he only has support because he plays the patriot card" ?
Astounding willful ignorance of even basic elementary understanding of what the situation actually is in America. when you have 60+ million supporters, of varying degrees of support, many admit they didnt want to but felt compelled to, with big support in almost every state bar the extremely blue ones and even then still a fair bit outside of the cities. Things like regulations on land, economy and guns and the economy before COVID. Gas prices 2 bucks-ish a gallon

From coast to coast these millions vary in how they see the world and all of them want to like the country they live in. All lumped into a single nice category that you can use to denigrate them.

Ugh the stupidity

The stupidity indeed - are you seriously saying Trump had nothing to do with hundreds of PEACEFUL protesters outside the White House being tear-gassed so that he could be seen holding a bible the wrong way up?

 

[brb]

He isn't going anywhere either. Anyone who thinks he's going to just disappear like former presidents in terms of his influence is kidding themselves. He won't be going anywhere, his twitter account aint going to fall silent, and the press won't stop reporting on it. Everyone loves a ****show and this will just get worse now he's out of office.

I personally can't find any redeeming qualities in the bloke so for me there was no watershed moment like the one you mention. He is one of those figures in history who makes a population think the wrong thing is the right thing. We can think of a fair few like that in history. And it usually only ends one way, in country(s) burning. The problem is you have people on the other side who still fail to see the genuine hardships and feeling of injustice which have driven millions of disaffected to believe Trump as one of their own. Had they done more to reach out to those who were marginalised or disillusioned we might not be where we are. And I hope to fck they wake up and get their act together now they've been given a chance... instead of calling some poor bloke a white supremacist just for asking his neighbours to turn the music down!

I think the whole Trump thing is more about race then anything else. If he wants to start a civil war, he will lose. The whole of America will lose.

Quote;
'With Trump, the Party has grown comfortable as a white grievance party. Is that racist? Yes, I think it is. Are 63 million plus people who supported Trump racist? No, absolutely not. But to support Trump is to make peace with white grievance and hate.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html

Quote;
'There is nothing strange or unexpected about Donald Trump. He is the logical conclusion of what the Republican Party became over the last fifty or so years, a natural product of the seeds of race, self-deception, and anger that became the essence of the Republican Party. Trump isn’t an aberration of the Republican Party; he is the Republican Party in a purified form.'

 

[O'l Gravy Leg.]

I swear, some people get their understanding of a America, country with nearly 400 million people in multiple time zones, from angry loons on twitter.

Trump did better with blacks and minorities and LGBT than last time too, he increase his shares in those, and lost some in blue collar demo, not a surprise given what damage COVID has done.

Boris and the Tories are in for a nice (Not nice) surprise too post COVID

 

[Tobes]

What's troubling is there's equal weighting on both sides. 70m turned out for Trump, fcking hell that's huge. I said to Diego a week ago the outcome I was hoping for from this election was a return to unity, some calming down of the hate and divisions. But the election's over and from what I'm seeing these divisions aren'tt going to simply die with Trump losing.

The country is beyond that. I have a horrible feeling this has to be played out. They have to go through the worst imaginable to come out the other side. I think there'll be a lot more death and destruction before this is anywhere near over and the country reconciles itself.

America, the most powerful nation in the world in 2020 ffs!

The divisions have been there for decades, just merely under the surface for the most part. Let’s not forget the US was still literally an apartheid country only 50 years ago. What Trump provided was empowerment to those who held those views, they saw him as ‘one of their own’ and he was in the WH ffs!

You lance the boil and things slowly start calming down, will you heal the divide? I doubt it, but it’ll just go back to people holding their views that they largely keep to themselves and don’t feel empowered enough to take to the streets parading their bigotry as the badge of honour that Bannon told them it was.

As for him hanging around on the political scene, personally I doubt it in the medium term at least. He was never a politician and had never held any office of State, being a political side show won’t be for him imo.

What he’s got left is his brand, and if he wants to avoid that brand becoming truly toxic, then he’ll do the right thing in the next few weeks, both for him and his nation, but I doubt he’s capable of doing what needs to be done.

We’ll see.

 

[Treble]

I think the whole Trump thing is more about race then anything else. If he wants to start a civil war, he will lose. The whole of America will lose.

Quote;
'With Trump, the Party has grown comfortable as a white grievance party. Is that racist? Yes, I think it is. Are 63 million plus people who supported Trump racist? No, absolutely not. But to support Trump is to make peace with white grievance and hate.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html

Quote;
'There is nothing strange or unexpected about Donald Trump. He is the logical conclusion of what the Republican Party became over the last fifty or so years, a natural product of the seeds of race, self-deception, and anger that became the essence of the Republican Party. Trump isn’t an aberration of the Republican Party; he is the Republican Party in a purified form.'

This is bang on the money

All of it. But the bit I've highlighted is exactly what I was talking about earlier when I said he's one of those figures in history who makes a population believe the wrong thing is the right thing. Nobody wakes up under an extremist ideology thinking, hey we're the bad guys now and we're going to win. They believe truly that they're the good guys and that what they're doing is right.

 

[Peej]

He isn't going anywhere either. Anyone who thinks he's going to just disappear like former presidents in terms of his influence is kidding themselves. He won't be going anywhere, his twitter account aint going to fall silent, and the press won't stop reporting on it. Everyone loves a ****show and this will just get worse now he's out of office.

I personally can't find any redeeming qualities in the bloke so for me there was no watershed moment like the one you mention. He is one of those figures in history who makes a population think the wrong thing is the right thing. We can think of a fair few like that in history. And it usually only ends one way, in country(s) burning. The problem is you have people on the other side who still fail to see the genuine hardships and feeling of injustice which have driven millions of disaffected to believe Trump as one of their own. Had they done more to reach out to those who were marginalised or disillusioned we might not be where we are. And I hope to fck they wake up and get their act together now they've been given a chance... instead of calling some poor bloke a white supremacist just for asking his neighbours to turn the music down!

His twitter will not get the freedom it has/had once he is no longer president.

 

[O'l Gravy Leg.]

"Enriquez is one of millions of Latinos casting a ballot for Trump this year. Nearly a third of Latinos routinely vote for Republicans in American elections, and the Trump campaign’s appeals to them show an understanding of their unique worldview, one rooted in deeply held beliefs about individualism, economic opportunity, and traditional social values. Across nationality, class, immigrant experience, and age, Trump-voting Latinos have one thing in common: a different vision from other Latinos of what it means to be American—and they believe their liberal counterparts and the broader public just don’t understand that."

What liberals dont understand about Trump Latinos
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/trump-latinos-biden-2020/616901/


Identity politics is less appealing to black Americans too, even if not a massive gain, the GOP has made good gains in that demo and Trump some small ones.

Also people calling everyone who voted for Trump "his supporters" is a complete idiot. Most of them are republicans anyway and would have voted whomever the gop put out for the race. Like a comment doesn't get dumber than that. Trump's base is not 60 million people

 

[brb]

200 pages yet?

 

[Tobes]

"Enriquez is one of millions of Latinos casting a ballot for Trump this year. Nearly a third of Latinos routinely vote for Republicans in American elections, and the Trump campaign’s appeals to them show an understanding of their unique worldview, one rooted in deeply held beliefs about individualism, economic opportunity, and traditional social values. Across nationality, class, immigrant experience, and age, Trump-voting Latinos have one thing in common: a different vision from other Latinos of what it means to be American—and they believe their liberal counterparts and the broader public just don’t understand that."

What liberals dont understand about Trump Latinos
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/10/trump-latinos-biden-2020/616901/


Identity politics is less appealing to black Americans too, even if not a massive gain, the GOP has made good gains in that demo and Trump some small ones.

Also people calling everyone who voted for Trump "his supporters" is a complete idiot. Most of them are republicans anyway and would have voted whomever the gop put out for the race. Like a comment doesn't get dumber than that. Trump's base is not 60 million people

Trumps campaign tried to portray Biden as a socialist ffs. Many Latinos bought it, and given the likes of the large Cuban community in Florida for example, they were hardly keen on the idea. It worked, bravo Trumps campaign team.

 

[Treble]

The divisions have been there for decades, just merely under the surface for the most part. Let’s not forget the US was still literally an apartheid country only 50 years ago. What Trump provided was empowerment to those who held those views, they saw him as ‘one of their own’ and he was in the WH ffs!

You lance the boil and things slowly start calming down, will you heal the divide? I doubt it, but it’ll just go back to people holding their views that they largely keep to themselves and don’t feel empowered enough to take to the streets parading their bigotry as the badge of honour that Bannon told them it was.

As for him hanging around on the political scene, personally I doubt it in the medium term at least. He was never a politician and had never held any office of State, being a political side show won’t be for him imo.

What he’s got left is his brand, and if he wants to avoid that brand becoming truly toxic, then he’ll do the right thing in the next few weeks, both for him and his nation, but I doubt he’s capable of doing what needs to be done.

We’ll see.

Yeh but every society, every country has those divisions. I guess the ability of a nation to keep them in the minority, as an undercurrent and not in the mainstream is the best you can achieve.

What is a contributing factor in making it expand and bringing it out into the open? The collapse of an economy, huge swathes of society feeling marginalised for various reasons, and a prize **** willing to exploit that. The thing that's allowed the underlying current of hate and division to grow to the extent it is today can be imo traced back to the banking crash 12 years ago and everything that's followed has fuelled that. Without it, I believe whilst the undercurrent would still be there, it wouldn't sucker in the otherwise rational wider disaffected folk and it wouldn't be drawn out into the open. And people like Trump wouldn't get a look in.

 

[Peej]

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Top T-shirt. Fully backed that.

 

[Tobes]

Yeh but every society, every country has those divisions. I guess the ability of a nation to keep them in the minority, as an undercurrent and not in the mainstream is the best you can achieve.

What is a contributing factor in making it expand and bringing it out into the open? The collapse of an economy, huge swathes of society feeling marginalised for various reasons, and a prize **** willing to exploit that. The thing that's allowed the underlying current of hate and division to grow to the extent it is today can be imo traced back to the banking crash 12 years ago and everything that's followed has fuelled that. Without it, I believe whilst the undercurrent would still be there, it would sucker the wider disaffected in and it wouldn't be drawn out into the open. And people like Trump wouldn't get a look in.

Exactly. The far right always rises during and immediately after periods of mass recession. It’s happened across the globe in the aftermath of 2008. People always want a scapegoat, and it’s much easier to ‘other’ groups during times of economic hardship, whilst simultaneously riding the wave of that populism for your own ends. It’s a well worn path.