Up Till Now....

[bcfcredandwhite]

R&W
Do you think the scenes on Dorset beaches would be any different if a coalition government with the wisdom of such luminaries as Corbyn and Mrs Abbott be in place. I think whatever government be in place they would listen to the SAGE advice. I can't see how it would be different, you'd still get clowns jumping off Durdle Door.
And I still think you'd get clever assed journalists having their day in the sun picking holes wherever their hindsight takes them.

Would people behave differently? No I don't think they would. People would still behave the same because there are many tw@'s around who think they're bulletproof - and journalists will continue to do what journalists do - make mischief where they can and sell stories.
However, what they would NOT be able to do is attack a particular PARTY or blame their policies. Equally, they wouldn't be able to SIDE with a particular party either. Basically, they wouldn't be able to follow their usual bias along party lines - eg: Mirror and Guardian have a Labour bias, Sun, Mail and Telegraph have a Tory bias. Neither would politicians be able to stand up and openly criticise the government policies on behalf of their party. It would really show that the country was working together across the political spectrum to fight this common enemy.
It won't happen of course. It's just what I believe SHOULD be happening.

 

[johngalleyfan2]

I might be alone, but still think the government have done a decent job through unprecedented circumstances....as for the media and journalists.. total blame game shambles..not helped whatsoever.....

THERE IS plenty of support for this .gov on here, also "wise people that have seen through the negativity of the press, especially BBC "
I DO NOT THINK there is a case to say we should involve the opposition as a joint .gov, yes it is referred to as " a war " and that is all it is a referral when we have " a war " against drug runners we do not involve the opposition as a coalition! ...merely terminology.....

 

[Oldsparkey]

Would people behave differently? No I don't think they would. People would still behave the same because there are many tw@'s around who think they're bulletproof - and journalists will continue to do what journalists do - make mischief where they can and sell stories.
However, what they would NOT be able to do is attack a particular PARTY or blame their policies. Equally, they wouldn't be able to SIDE with a particular party either. Basically, they wouldn't be able to follow their usual bias along party lines - eg: Mirror and Guardian have a Labour bias, Sun, Mail and Telegraph have a Tory bias. Neither would politicians be able to stand up and openly criticise the government policies on behalf of their party. It would really show that the country was working together across the political spectrum to fight this common enemy.
It won't happen of course. It's just what I believe SHOULD be happening.

What's the post code in Utopia?

 

[Loathsneyd]

I might be alone, but still think the government have done a decent job through unprecedented circumstances....as for the media and journalists.. total blame game shambles..not helped whatsoever.....but if I'm honest..I didn't expect anything different..

I'm not sure how you are clarifying a decent job but I wouldn't class this government has doing a decent job when we are second only to the buffoon led United States in terms of deaths per country.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I might be alone, but still think the government have done a decent job through unprecedented circumstances....as for the media and journalists.. total blame game shambles..not helped whatsoever.....but if I'm honest..I didn't expect anything different..

They have done better than I expected to be fair. However, they (in my opinion) there are some lessons to be learned from errors which will translate into high costs, both in human deaths and financial economic impact (that's not to say that a Labour government would have done any better - probably not). I hope that we all learn from these:

1. We sent a lot of our PPE to CHINA when the virus first broke. Whilst that was laudable from a human perspective, it was short sighted because it was obvious the virus would spread and arrive here sooner rather than later.
Once the PPE shortage became clear, we continued to uphold the logistical arrangements that were procured prior to the crisis, rather than give hospitals the freedom to procure their own PPE. That's why we waited for a consignment of surgical gowns to be delivered from Turkey, instead of buying them from our own internal sources who were more than willing to supply. I know this information because my wife's friend is a doctor working in Salisbury and he and his staff were forced to buy their own PPE - some even made surgical gowns out of bin liners with holes cut for their arms - yes really - at the same time as Raab was standing at the podium saying it was under control.
2. We should have started the lockdown much sooner. The trends were available for the politicians to see - the virus was spreading fast - especially in high density urban areas. Other countries like Italy and Spain were warning us to shut down but we ignored them.
3. Why did we leave our borders open? We're an island FFS - it's much easier for us than for countries with land borders, yet we continued to let people flood into the country WITHOUT BEING TESTED. We should have grounded passenger flights immediately upon lockdown and ensured that only goods and people with an exceptional justifiable reason fly in and out.
4. This crisis has highlighted our dire dependence upon foreign supplies. We need to ensure that our stock levels of relatively cheap items like PPE and ventilators never fall below a certain minimum.

On a more positive note, reports from Italy say that the virus is weakening. It’s evolving to a weaker strain in order to survive and spread apparently.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

What's the post code in Utopia?

Isn’t it CF10? Or maybe BS3?
It’s certainly not SN1....!!!

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

They have done better than I expected to be fair. However, they (in my opinion) there are some lessons to be learned from errors which will translate into high costs, both in human deaths and financial economic impact (that's not to say that a Labour government would have done any better - probably not). I hope that we all learn from these:

1. We sent a lot of our PPE to CHINA when the virus first broke. Whilst that was laudable from a human perspective, it was short sighted because it was obvious the virus would spread and arrive here sooner rather than later.
Once the PPE shortage became clear, we continued to uphold the logistical arrangements that were procured prior to the crisis, rather than give hospitals the freedom to procure their own PPE. That's why we waited for a consignment of surgical gowns to be delivered from Turkey, instead of buying them from our own internal sources who were more than willing to supply. I know this information because my wife's friend is a doctor working in Salisbury and he and his staff were forced to buy their own PPE - some even made surgical gowns out of bin liners with holes cut for their arms - yes really - at the same time as Raab was standing at the podium saying it was under control.
2. We should have started the lockdown much sooner. The trends were available for the politicians to see - the virus was spreading fast - especially in high density urban areas. Other countries like Italy and Spain were warning us to shut down but we ignored them.
3. Why did we leave our borders open? We're an island FFS - it's much easier for us than for countries with land borders, yet we continued to let people flood into the country WITHOUT BEING TESTED. We should have grounded passenger flights immediately upon lockdown and ensured that only goods and people with an exceptional justifiable reason fly in and out.
4. This crisis has highlighted our dire dependence upon foreign supplies. We need to ensure that our stock levels of relatively cheap items like PPE and ventilators never fall below a certain minimum.

On a more positive note, reports from Italy say that the virus is weakening. It’s evolving to a weaker strain in order to survive and spread apparently.

We should have, could have..Hindsight is wonderful after the event....
I really don't think the nation was ready or convinced that we going to be so badly hit......so yes on hindsight we should have locked down earlier, but if it wouldn't have been so bad, many would be up in arms, losing more jobs, more businesses going under, more domestic abuse, more deprived families and children struggling to cope..
Yes we've had high figures, but London is the one of the largest & highest populated capitals in Europe and we didn't lock down to the extent as France or Italy etc. By not fully locking down, I believe we will come out economically better.
Yes, there are loads of lessons to learn from all of this...better PPE, quick and more testing, emphasis on care homes (although many are private that charge a small fortune should have most of the necessary equipment on hand)..
I do not believe, there is any other political party in this Country that would have been any better prepared or better handled, for what's just gone on......

 

[Red Robin]

We should have, could have..Hindsight is wonderful after the event....
I really don't think the nation was ready or convinced that we going to be so badly hit......so yes on hindsight we should have locked down earlier, but if it wouldn't have been so bad, many would be up in arms, losing more jobs, more businesses going under, more domestic abuse, more deprived families and children struggling to cope..
Yes we've had high figures, but London is the one of the largest & highest populated capitals in Europe and we didn't lock down to the extent as France or Italy etc. By not fully locking down, I believe we will come out economically better.
Yes, there are loads of lessons to learn from all of this...better PPE, quick and more testing, emphasis on care homes (although many are private that charge a small fortune should have most of the necessary equipment on hand)..
I do not believe, there is any other political party in this Country that would have been any better prepared or better handled, for what's just gone on......

Spot on

 

[AshtonRed]

We should have, could have..Hindsight is wonderful after the event....
I really don't think the nation was ready or convinced that we going to be so badly hit......so yes on hindsight we should have locked down earlier, but if it wouldn't have been so bad, many would be up in arms, losing more jobs, more businesses going under, more domestic abuse, more deprived families and children struggling to cope..
Yes we've had high figures, but London is the one of the largest & highest populated capitals in Europe and we didn't lock down to the extent as France or Italy etc. By not fully locking down, I believe we will come out economically better.
Yes, there are loads of lessons to learn from all of this...better PPE, quick and more testing, emphasis on care homes (although many are private that charge a small fortune should have most of the necessary equipment on hand)..
I do not believe, there is any other political party in this Country that would have been any better prepared or better handled, for what's just gone on......

Whatever your political allegiances to have run the health service down as we have for the last 10 years meant we started at a very low base. That was a political decision the Tory party made, So to say we wouldn’t have been better prepared under any other political party I’m afraid isn’t an accurate statement , in my view.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I wasn't trying to run the Tories down - or any other party for that matter - although I dislike all the political parties intensely.
I was trying to say that there are some decisions made (or NOT made) which caused us pain. These must be noted and the lessons learnt so that if this type of thing ever happens again we will be better prepared.

 

[AshtonRed]

I wasn't trying to run the Tories down - or any other party for that matter - although I dislike all the political parties intensely.
I was trying to say that there are some decisions made (or NOT made) which caused us pain. These must be noted and the lessons learnt so that if this type of thing ever happens again we will be better prepared.

And one of the lessons , which to be fair was avoidable , and both the Lib Dem’s & the Labour Party have been saying it for years , it’s only the Tory Party that couldn’t see it , is the NHS shouldn’t be allowed to become so run down and underfunded. They were aware if something like this happened we would struggle to cope and yet they decided not to put anything in place . There had been warnings in the past which they chose to ignore.

 

[BCFCRob]

Yeah sorry to go against the grain (not like me I know!), but we are one the wealthiest countries in the world, and we have some of the worst numbers in the world.

Not quite sure how any of that can be considered a good job. What exactly would constitute a bad job?

 

[Reliant Robin TC2]

Do you know what? There are so may claims and counter-claims, so may stats showing this and that, and other stats showing the total opposite, so may "experts" wanting to get their two-pennyth (?) in, that I am prepared to let history judge who or what was done right and what wasn't!! There will be more than enough inquisitions in the aftermath to get to the bottom of everything!!

I am not a political minded person. Having said that, I've never been happy about the under funding of the Police and NHS in particular, but had millions of pounds worth of PPE been stockpiled for "something that might never happen", then thrown away because it was past its use-by date, who would have been first to rip into the government - Piers ****ing Morgan or the Labour party?!!

I suppose I'm being selfish, but I'm simply doing my bit to make sure that my family and I am affected by it as little as possible; I wish that many others out there could say the same!

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Whatever your political allegiances to have run the health service down as we have for the last 10 years meant we started at a very low base. That was a political decision the Tory party made, So to say we wouldn’t have been better prepared under any other political party I’m afraid isn’t an accurate statement , in my view.

Tough decisions had to be made after the mess left by a dire Labour government and the financial crash in 2008.....(Brown selling all the gold reserves didn't help) ..the Country was on it's knees....so yes, cuts were made more or less across the board...we were at the time, made aware of the situation and so it was inevitable that, we'd be on catch up for many years........This pandemic has shown, we were caught on the hop....with such unprecedented circumstances, I believe we are still coming out of it quite well........Easing the lock down was always going to be challenging...and will be for years to come I fear..

 

[RedorDead]

We should have, could have..Hindsight is wonderful after the event....
I really don't think the nation was ready or convinced that we going to be so badly hit......so yes on hindsight we should have locked down earlier, but if it wouldn't have been so bad, many would be up in arms, losing more jobs, more businesses going under, more domestic abuse, more deprived families and children struggling to cope..
Yes we've had high figures, but London is the one of the largest & highest populated capitals in Europe and we didn't lock down to the extent as France or Italy etc. By not fully locking down, I believe we will come out economically better.
Yes, there are loads of lessons to learn from all of this...better PPE, quick and more testing, emphasis on care homes (although many are private that charge a small fortune should have most of the necessary equipment on hand)..
I do not believe, there is any other political party in this Country that would have been any better prepared or better handled, for what's just gone on......

I don’t know how you can say we will be better economically than other countries as we now stepping into this. (I think we’ve always been better than France and Italy)

I was on a meeting, and one of the things relayed down was we should get ready for a double dip recession.

We are no way out of this, the rate may be slowing as will the deaths, but in the same vain the common flu is by far lower in the warmer months.

But economically we are only just dipping our toes into the water, you wait till furlough scheme runs out. Jobs are already in jeopardy or gone.



None of the other parties in my opinion could of done any better or worse as no party to compare against in history.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Yeah sorry to go against the grain (not like me I know!), but we are one the wealthiest countries in the world, and we have some of the worst numbers in the world.

Not quite sure how any of that can be considered a good job. What exactly would constitute a bad job?

Well, compare us to, lets say Italy.....the figures show, we had higher cases and deaths.....But London is 3 times the size of any City in Italy and a much larger population, one of, if not "the" main hub in Europe....just one example..
I think we need to wait, to conclude the outcome to all of this.....there will be many questions, but long term, with finances not too disrupted..we might show we've done ok.......
Financially, Countries such as Italy & Spain will be on it's knees over the coming years..which will have other implications, such as health etc..It will take many many years to understand the damage done across most nations.....I certainly won't be knee jerking with my views I will also be taking zero interest from our so called journalists and media, whom for most, have been appalling .

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I don’t know how you can say we will be better economically than other countries as we now stepping into this. (I think we’ve always been better than France and Italy)

I was on a meeting, and one of the things relayed down was we should get ready for a double dip recession.

We are no way out of this, the rate may be slowing as will the deaths, but in the same vain the common flu is by far lower in the warmer months.

But economically we are only just dipping our toes into the water, you wait till furlough scheme runs out. Jobs are already in jeopardy or gone.



None of the other parties in my opinion could of done any better or worse as no party to compare against in history.

Countries such as France, Italy & Spain went on full lock down...we didn't...
I agree with you, many jobs and businesses will be lost.....it's gonna be really hard for many people for years to come....But I think, it could have been a lot worse..
Like you say...it's not over yet....it will be years before we are aware of the full impact..But I think, long term..we won't look as bad as our media are making out..

As to parties in charge....I was just thinking, had Labour won the election....how Corbyn & Abbott would have coped

 

[BCFCRob]

What would’ve been worse? Seriously. We’re already top 3 in the world for excess deaths. How could they have done worse?

My point isn’t that they’re good (they’re not). I just don’t think it’s literally possible to do worse than the UK has at this point.

 

[johngalleyfan2]

What's the post code in Utopia?

...EW6 9ES

On a more positive note, reports from Italy say that the virus is weakening. It’s evolving to a weaker strain in order to survive and spread apparently.

maybe sailing against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide as each cell gets passed on it gets weaker due to picking up anti bodies which chip bits off [ evolution ].

(although many are private that charge a small fortune should have most of the necessary equipment on hand)..

AT £900 + PER WEEK A 40 bed home gets 0ver £36k a week a lot of carers in these places multi task ..caring cooking washing .. the home my mother went to 56 beds, 8 years ago was £880 for a single small room, on nights were 4 staff @ 12 hours on a 42 hour week 4 shifts and 3 shifts. that's £3k of their income. days was split shifts 6-2 and …..? about 10 staff plus 2 managers on duty from 6am to 8pm [ nights was 8 till 8 …. 9 till 9

 

[AshtonRed]

...EW6 9ES

maybe sailing against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide as each cell gets passed on it gets weaker due to picking up anti bodies which chip bits off [ evolution ].
AT £900 + PER WEEK A 40 bed home gets 0ver £36k a week a lot of carers in these places multi task ..caring cooking washing .. the home my mother went to 56 beds, 8 years ago was £880 for a single small room, on nights were 4 staff @ 12 hours on a 42 hour week 4 shifts and 3 shifts. that's £3k of their income. days was split shifts 6-2 and …..? about 10 staff plus 2 managers on duty from 6am to 8pm [ nights was 8 till 8 …. 9 till 9

...EW6 9ES

maybe sailing against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide against the tide as each cell gets passed on it gets weaker due to picking up anti bodies which chip bits off [ evolution ].
AT £900 + PER WEEK A 40 bed home gets 0ver £36k a week a lot of carers in these places multi task ..caring cooking washing .. the home my mother went to 56 beds, 8 years ago was £880 for a single small room, on nights were 4 staff @ 12 hours on a 42 hour week 4 shifts and 3 shifts. that's £3k of their income. days was split shifts 6-2 and …..? about 10 staff plus 2 managers on duty from 6am to 8pm [ nights was 8 till 8 …. 9 till 9

If you hadn’t taken a mortgage you’d now still be paying rent And ultimately you’d be worse off now than you presently are. sometimes you need to borrow to pay for things you couldn’t otherwise afford . Borrowing for the right things is not a bad thing. Business borrows for plant , machinery etc. Without borrowing business would not be able to function . The black hole as you put it was what was left after we had to bail out the banks, had we not done that we would have been in an even worse predicament. We’ve had to do a similar now to pay for the furlough etc, there will be a similar black hole after this virus I hope we have learned the only thing austerity delivers is poverty and he feeling of desperation for those at the bottom who are least able to shoulder the burden . Interest rates are really low , better we borrow to bolster the economy by investing in infrastructure rather than squandering millions on quantative easing .