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Off Topic Ukraine

Discussion in 'Watford' started by andytoprankin, Mar 12, 2022.

  1. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    Left and right wing ideologies have avowed objectives in mind. The methods they choose to try to achieve them often seem at odds with the social relationships and structures they hope to achieve. I think Orwell expressed it as well as anyone.
     
    #101
  2. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately there is no difference between Communism and Fascism they both hold on to power by the same methods, police state terrorism
     
    #102
  3. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    This is where I part company with many on the so called far left Theo - whilst I share many of their goals I think that if there is a good end then there must be a good way of getting there - if there isn't then you should question your goals. Ends can never justify means in the way some people would like to believe. The major structural mistake of Marxism was to presume that taking over the state was necessary and then instituting an interim period of state control to oversee the transformation to Communism - according to the theory the state would then voluntarily whither away once that end had been achieved - but that stage never arrived, nor could it because no state (or power structure) has ever whithered away voluntarily.
     
    #103
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  4. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    What they had in the USSR wasn't Communism Duggie.
     
    #104
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  5. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    I only stated that in the end there is no difference
     
    #105
  6. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    Agreed...which has led some to argue that communism has only ever been achieved in relatively small homogenous groups.
     
    #106
  7. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    So what type of existence would you describe as Communist Duggie ? Most commentators use the word only to describe those states which they didn't/don't like in order to discredit the word itself. There is more collective ownership in an Amish community or in a Benedictine monastery than there ever was in the USSR yet we, mostly, don't use the word to dscribe them - why ? The origins of Communism, or Communalism have religious roots and were expressed in religious terms right up until the 19th Century until Marx took over the term and tried to make it his own. Similarly words like Fascist don't have any real meaning any longer - they have simply become terms of abuse for anything we don't like.
     
    #107
  8. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Which is closer to the word itself Theo. Communism can only come from the commune and not from the state hence the word - it's not called Statism is it. It could happen that you get a network of communities developing as in the anarcho Communist regions of Northern Spain during their civil war. Whether such a community,or communities, need to be homogenous is a very debatable and explosive subject - does such a community need to have something else holding them together other than an abstract view of the World ?
     
    #108
  9. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    I suspect in practice it generally does though in theory it ought not to!
     
    #109
  10. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    It interested me so much that his policies had 80% approval rating until those questioned were made aware of whose policies they were. That’s how crass our society is.
     
    #110
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  11. Scullion

    Scullion Well-Known Member

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    It stuck me that the woke and cancel culture are Fascist.
     
    #111
  12. Hornet-Fez

    Hornet-Fez Well-Known Member

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    If you want to see actual Fascists you should take a look at the "questions" the repugnikkans are asking Katanje Brown Jackson at the SCotUS hearings. Absolutely outrageous, scandalous: those "senators" are an absolute disgrace to the public office they hold.
     
    #112
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  13. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image


    Maybe the Chancellor needs to have a few words with his father-in- law. Under the ministerial code of conduct, family ties to companies that might provoke a conflict of interest must be declared. Although admitting he had heard of the company, he said that he didn't know what others in the family were doing.
     
    #113
  14. NZHorn

    NZHorn Well-Known Member

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    The other day I got called a fascist by an anti-vaxer. When I asked her why she thought that my support for vaccinations meant that I also supported a corporate-syndicalist system of government she looked blank until she recovered enough to hurl more earthy abuse at me.
     
    #114
  15. duggie2000

    duggie2000 Well-Known Member

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    She must have been a rent a mob anti-vaxer
     
    #115
  16. hornethologist a.k.a. theo

    hornethologist a.k.a. theo Well-Known Member

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    The debate about what fascism means is an interesting one and a reminder that meanings of many words are 'slippery' over time. I sometimes mourn the loss of incredible, awful, literal among others. It's infuriating when the concept they once represented now requires a whole sentence to show how specific you intend your meaning to be!
     
    #116
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  17. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. ;)
     
    #117
  18. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    SUPERYACHT DETAINED IN LONDON

    It is 58.5 metres long and features what is described as a “infinite wine cellar” .

    More parties are planned, and the local Tesco doesn't have much of a selection?
     
    #118
  19. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    As the French Presidential election draws closer, it is not a good time to be a far right candidate with links to Moscow.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #119
  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Social media does seem to work sometimes. There has been lots of pressure on the French store Decathlon, which is the largest sports equipment and clothing company in the country, to close its Russian stores. The company has now said that it will, citing supply chain problems.
     
    #120
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