Left and right wing ideologies have avowed objectives in mind. The methods they choose to try to achieve them often seem at odds with the social relationships and structures they hope to achieve. I think Orwell expressed it as well as anyone.
Left and right wing ideologies have avowed objectives in mind. The methods they choose to try to achieve them often seem at odds with the social relationships and structures they hope to achieve. I think Orwell expressed it as well as anyone.
This is where I part company with many on the so called far left Theo - whilst I share many of their goals I think that if there is a good end then there must be a good way of getting there - if there isn't then you should question your goals. Ends can never justify means in the way some people would like to believe. The major structural mistake of Marxism was to presume that taking over the state was necessary and then instituting an interim period of state control to oversee the transformation to Communism - according to the theory the state would then voluntarily whither away once that end had been achieved - but that stage never arrived, nor could it because no state (or power structure) has ever whithered away voluntarily.Left and right wing ideologies have avowed objectives in mind. The methods they choose to try to achieve them often seem at odds with the social relationships and structures they hope to achieve. I think Orwell expressed it as well as anyone.
What they had in the USSR wasn't Communism Duggie.Ultimately there is no difference between Communism and Fascism they both hold on to power by the same methods, police state terrorism
What they had in the USSR wasn't Communism Duggie.
This is where I part company with many on the so called far left Theo - whilst I share many of their goals I think that if there is a good end then there must be a good way of getting there - if there isn't then you should question your goals. Ends can never justify means in the way some people would like to believe. The major structural mistake of Marxism was to presume that taking over the state was necessary and then instituting an interim period of state control to oversee the transformation to Communism - according to the theory the state would then voluntarily whither away once that end had been achieved - but that stage never arrived, nor could it because no state (or power structure) has ever whithered away voluntarily.
So what type of existence would you describe as Communist Duggie ? Most commentators use the word only to describe those states which they didn't/don't like in order to discredit the word itself. There is more collective ownership in an Amish community or in a Benedictine monastery than there ever was in the USSR yet we, mostly, don't use the word to dscribe them - why ? The origins of Communism, or Communalism have religious roots and were expressed in religious terms right up until the 19th Century until Marx took over the term and tried to make it his own. Similarly words like Fascist don't have any real meaning any longer - they have simply become terms of abuse for anything we don't like.I only stated that in the end there is no difference
Which is closer to the word itself Theo. Communism can only come from the commune and not from the state hence the word - it's not called Statism is it. It could happen that you get a network of communities developing as in the anarcho Communist regions of Northern Spain during their civil war. Whether such a community,or communities, need to be homogenous is a very debatable and explosive subject - does such a community need to have something else holding them together other than an abstract view of the World ?Agreed...which has led some to argue that communism has only ever been achieved in relatively small homogenous groups.
Which is closer to the word itself Theo. Communism can only come from the commune and not from the state hence the word - it's not called Statism is it. It could happen that you get a network of communities developing as in the anarcho Communist regions of Northern Spain during their civil war. Whether such a community,or communities, need to be homogenous is a very debatable and explosive subject - does such a community need to have something else holding them together other than an abstract view of the World ?
It interested me so much that his policies had 80% approval rating until those questioned were made aware of whose policies they were. That’s how crass our society is.I wasn't blaming him andy. My point was that the perception of him was that he was too extreme, which was stoked by the right wing press and media in general. My friend thought he was something straight out of the Kremlin, but then he does have the Telegraph delivered every day!
Similarly words like Fascist don't have any real meaning any longer - they have simply become terms of abuse for anything we don't like.
If you want to see actual Fascists you should take a look at the "questions" the repugnikkans are asking Katanje Brown Jackson at the SCotUS hearings. Absolutely outrageous, scandalous: those "senators" are an absolute disgrace to the public office they hold.It stuck me that the woke and cancel culture are Fascist.
So what type of existence would you describe as Communist Duggie ? Most commentators use the word only to describe those states which they didn't/don't like in order to discredit the word itself. There is more collective ownership in an Amish community or in a Benedictine monastery than there ever was in the USSR yet we, mostly, don't use the word to dscribe them - why ? The origins of Communism, or Communalism have religious roots and were expressed in religious terms right up until the 19th Century until Marx took over the term and tried to make it his own. Similarly words like Fascist don't have any real meaning any longer - they have simply become terms of abuse for anything we don't like.
The other day I got called a fascist by an anti-vaxer. When I asked her why she thought that my support for vaccinations meant that I also supported a corporate-syndicalist system of government she looked blank until she recovered enough to hurl more earthy abuse at me.
Awesome.The debate about what fascism means is an interesting one and a reminder that meanings of many words are 'slippery' over time. I sometimes mourn the loss of incredible, awful, literal among others. It's infuriating when the concept they once represented now requires a whole sentence to show how specific you intend your meaning to be!