Off Topic UK / EU Future

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Interesting that the firm that exemplifies the British entrepreneurial spirit is relocating to Singapore... nothing to do with Brexit though... and no issues about loyalty to the UK, its economy or workforce..... not at all...

Interesting that so many of the big financiers of Brexit campaigns have major financial interests overseas.

Who is duping who?
 
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colognehornet said:
The difference is the time span between referendum and actually leaving Scully. You would not have a General Election which asked the question 'Who do you want to form the Government in 3 years time' - but rather ask the question closer to the event. A second referendum just before leaving (or not) would give a far closer feedback as to exactly what the country wants, now that the options and consequences are much better known.
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The event took place 2 years ago and we knew at that time it would take 2 years to effect Brexit if that is what the voters chose. If we had chosen to remain then would voters demand another referendum if public opinion swung in favour of Brexit 2 years later.

It is up to parliament to enact legislation for another referendum on the matter but I fear there are significant risks to our democracy if we go down that road.

Yes we know a little more about the options and consequences about leaving the EU and again it is surrounded by a lot of dis-information. What is so disappointing is that the government does not seem to be prepared to carry out the wishes of the people given in the referendum, which is to leave the EU. This was a first past the post result but in a way it was also proportional representation which many seem to prefer, although I cannot fathom how the government should act if the Brexit referendum tried to please 52%/48% proportional referendum split but perhaps that is what they are trying to do and nobody is happy with the results. What really frustrates me is that so many in government and other powerful players think that should not carry out the will of the people because they think they know better. They tried this against the suffragette movement, I rest my case.
 
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I think the circumstances are a little more complex in that BREXIT means so many different things and is now proving so hard to effect.
The whole thing was badly thought out from beginning to end and I actually think a return to ask the people what sort of Brexit they now prefer is actually a good thing and is more democratic if we can sue that much misunderstood term than not consulting with the people.

I for one would still vote to remain if there was to be such a vote as I continue to believe that the medium term impact on both our economy and our country will in so many ways be detrimental
 
The last actual testing of what is the will of the people came when the PM tried to increase her majority in parliament so that she could force her interpretation of Brexit through, and the population said no. What came out of that was the arrangement with the DUP, which was only designed to be a short term deal. Was it the will of the people that they should have to pay to keep her in power a bit longer? I suggest that people would have said no thank you if given that option.
 
Scullion said:
The event took place 2 years ago and we knew at that time it would take 2 years to effect Brexit if that is what the voters chose. If we had chosen to remain then would voters demand another referendum if public opinion swung in favour of Brexit 2 years later.

It is up to parliament to enact legislation for another referendum on the matter but I fear there are significant risks to our democracy if we go down that road.

Yes we know a little more about the options and consequences about leaving the EU and again it is surrounded by a lot of dis-information. What is so disappointing is that the government does not seem to be prepared to carry out the wishes of the people given in the referendum, which is to leave the EU. This was a first past the post result but in a way it was also proportional representation which many seem to prefer, although I cannot fathom how the government should act if the Brexit referendum tried to please 52%/48% proportional referendum split but perhaps that is what they are trying to do and nobody is happy with the results. What really frustrates me is that so many in government and other powerful players think that should not carry out the will of the people because they think they know better. They tried this against the suffragette movement, I rest my case.
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There is no set out constitutional position as to how referendums should be carried out in the UK. Scully, nor are the results legally binding, as we are not a direct democracy but a parliamentary one. In those counties where referendums are common (and legally binding) they require an active majority to be in favour of any measure which actually changes the law - an active majority of the electorate rather than just those who voted. In this context a non vote would be seen as signifying no wish for change. This is how referendums work in those countries which use them on a regular basis - in some countries they actually couple this with compulsory voting. Britain has no experience of referendums, and to suddenly throw one at the population was an invitation to any type of protest voting against the government, the EU, or anyone else they see as part of the establishment. I think you will understand that a step of this magnitude requires a second opinion, closer to the date of it actually happening, once the conditions are better known. If TM tries to bypass parliament and takes Britain out of the EU. against the wishes of both the British Parliament and the current wishes of the British people, and is able to do this, then it raises very serious questions about the nature of British democracy.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
The last actual testing of what is the will of the people came when the PM tried to increase her majority in parliament so that she could force her interpretation of Brexit through, and the population said no. What came out of that was the arrangement with the DUP, which was only designed to be a short term deal. Was it the will of the people that they should have to pay to keep her in power a bit longer? I suggest that people would have said no thank you if given that option.
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That election showed the two parties that supported Brexit had vastly increased support at the expense of anti Brexit parties.
 
superhorns said:
That election showed the two parties that supported Brexit had vastly increased support at the expense of anti Brexit parties.
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What it showed which you cannot dispute is that the government lost the majority it had. It was never in doubt why the election was held, and despite Corbyn not wishing to talk about Brexit for reasons we can all understand, the Tories kept hauling it back to just the one subject. That was rejected and the now the MPs are trying to find a way through the mess that the election created.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
What it showed which you cannot dispute is that the government lost the majority it had. It was never in doubt why the election was held, and despite Corbyn not wishing to talk about Brexit for reasons we can all understand, the Tories kept hauling it back to just the one subject. That was rejected and the now the MPs are trying to find a way through the mess that the election created.
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What was rejected was the anti Brexit parties. The government lost its majority purely through attempting to solve the long term care issue. The Brexit supporting Tories and Labour both had much higher votes shares, the highest for decades.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
Interesting that the firm that exemplifies the British entrepreneurial spirit is relocating to Singapore... nothing to do with Brexit though... and no issues about loyalty to the UK, its economy or workforce..... not at all...

Interesting that so many of the big financiers of Brexit campaigns have major financial interests overseas.

Who is duping who?
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Follow the money.... that's all you have to do.
All comes down to the media moguls not wanting to pay their fair share of tax - the EU will soon be closing several loopholes which will cost the likes of the barclay bros, the murdochs, and their ilk, millions. Far more money than the so called "benefit scroungers" apparently cost the country.

I see dyson is the latest rat to jump the sinking ship. Git.
 
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Scullion said:
The event took place 2 years ago and we knew at that time it would take 2 years to effect Brexit if that is what the voters chose. If we had chosen to remain then would voters demand another referendum if public opinion swung in favour of Brexit 2 years later.

It is up to parliament to enact legislation for another referendum on the matter but I fear there are significant risks to our democracy if we go down that road.

Yes we know a little more about the options and consequences about leaving the EU and again it is surrounded by a lot of dis-information. What is so disappointing is that the government does not seem to be prepared to carry out the wishes of the people given in the referendum, which is to leave the EU. This was a first past the post result but in a way it was also proportional representation which many seem to prefer, although I cannot fathom how the government should act if the Brexit referendum tried to please 52%/48% proportional referendum split but perhaps that is what they are trying to do and nobody is happy with the results. What really frustrates me is that so many in government and other powerful players think that should not carry out the will of the people because they think they know better. They tried this against the suffragette movement, I rest my case.
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You're comparing Brexit with the suffragette movement - seriously????????? Won't be long before someone else compares the EU with Nazi Germany - again <doh>
 
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Dan Starkey 2 said:
You're comparing Brexit with the suffragette movement - seriously????????? Won't be long before someone else compares the EU with Nazi Germany - again <doh>
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It was either the long suffering Greek or Italian senior politicians that compared the EU to Nazi Germany.
 
It would appear that Rees-Mogg is now suggesting that Parliament should be temporarily closed so that any bills going through would be lost. This smacks of real desperation as he sees that the moderates on all sides of the house are coming together to remove the threat of leaving the EU without a deal in place.
 
superhorns said:
It was either the long suffering Greek or Italian senior politicians that compared the EU to Nazi Germany.
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I actually remember Jeremy Hunt coming out with the same comparison <doh> Apparently the EU just has to put up with this sort of moronic comment. Yet when someone on the other side makes a joke about cherry picking then the blue bottles of the home counties start sabre rattling.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It would appear that Rees-Mogg is now suggesting that Parliament should be temporarily closed so that any bills going through would be lost. This smacks of real desperation as he sees that the moderates on all sides of the house are coming together to remove the threat of leaving the EU without a deal in place.
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I wonder what page of Erskine May that's on - actually in fairness to him it probably is in there as I think it's his bedside reading. On a more or less related note it's interesting that the Commons is keeping its recess in February but the Lords has cancelled it's own one. Also rather telling that both houses are content to pack up only 6 days after exit day for Easter - despite it not being till 21 April this year. "They work for You" indeed.....
 
Dan Starkey 2 said:
I wonder what page of Erskine May that's on - actually in fairness to him it probably is in there as I think it's his bedside reading. On a more or less related note it's interesting that the Commons is keeping its recess in February but the Lords has cancelled it's own one. Also rather telling that both houses are content to pack up only 6 days after exit day for Easter - despite it not being till 21 April this year. "They work for You" indeed.....
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Prorogation normally lasts for three days, and any law that is in the process before prorogation falls. Seems to have been used in other countries that follow the Westminster model. You have to allow the MPs to carry out their outside interests of course. David Davis has just been appointed as an outside adviser to JCB at a salary of £60,000 pa, plus perks, for a total of 20 hours a year. They need the time off!
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Prorogation normally lasts for three days, and any law that is in the process before prorogation falls. Seems to have been used in other countries that follow the Westminster model. You have to allow the MPs to carry out their outside interests of course. David Davis has just been appointed as an outside adviser to JCB at a salary of £60,000 pa, plus perks, for a total of 20 hours a year. They need the time off!
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JCB obviously realise DD is a smart cookie.
 
The BBC is considering Brussels for the opening of a centre within the European Union. Prime Minister Charles Michel had a discussion on this subject in Davos, where the World Economic Forum is being held, with the head of the British public channel.

If the BBC wants to continue broadcasting in the European Union after Brexit, the channel needs a license and therefore also a location in the European Union. The BBC is studying several possibilities, including Belgium. Ireland and the Netherlands represent other options. Brussels, the capital of the EU, would be a logical choice, says one.
 
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