Off Topic UK / EU Future

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oldfrenchhorn said:
Just how united is the Tory party. Certainly not the cabinet, certainly not the MPs. It would seem that it is only the small number of ageing party members who can agree on anything. As my son-in-law said while he was here, " I once would have supported the Tories, but never again. They are totally incompetent to run a whelk stall, and have only created chaos There is no one I can vote for anymore". This from the only member of my family who was conned into voting leave. It is sad to say that this opinion is coming across more and more, while people stuck in the past are frightened to death that if there were a second vote they would lose. Meanwhile cross party MPs are moving to prevent the government spending any money on a no-deal situation. Read back to the late 1980's and you will find similar chaos when the Tories were in power.
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If you see the latest opinion poll results the Tories support has held up really well at 40%, it is the opposition, both Labour and Lib Dems who are badly struggling for support.

Anyone can come up with a single view which is contrary to the latest trend, it means nothing. The Uk will no doubt vote for the two main parties at the next election, your predicted new party seems to have sunk without any trace. Do you have a date for its emergence?
 
I find your support for the party no matter what they come up with slightly touching SH. As someone who holds no allegiance to any party I find that being beholden to one rather sad. I have been reading about the last days of Thatcher, and she still had some supporters, but many people similar to Moggy who wanted her gone. The result of course was that although the Tories clung to power a little longer, they were removed and didn't get back into office for a decade. The similarities are very striking, but go back even further and you will find that even after Churchill won a war, he was removed. What goes on out of site of the general public is repeated time again, and there are all the same warning signs for your party. It only requires someone like a Blair to come along, and May will be consigned to history. That of course comes down to Labour party members to work out why Corbyn is not taking notice of them despite what he said he would do. There are clear differences within Labour, but they are not so wide as those in the Tories. The big difference is that with their tiny number of supporters, the Tories in Westminster can ignore them, while the much larger number of members of the Labour party can make their voices heard, and are beginning to urge Corbyn to get on board with them. Sad to say, but at this crucial time he is becoming another Micheal Foot.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I find your support for the party no matter what they come up with slightly touching SH. As someone who holds no allegiance to any party I find that being beholden to one rather sad. I have been reading about the last days of Thatcher, and she still had some supporters, but many people similar to Moggy who wanted her gone. The result of course was that although the Tories clung to power a little longer, they were removed and didn't get back into office for a decade. The similarities are very striking, but go back even further and you will find that even after Churchill won a war, he was removed. What goes on out of site of the general public is repeated time again, and there are all the same warning signs for your party. It only requires someone like a Blair to come along, and May will be consigned to history. That of course comes down to Labour party members to work out why Corbyn is not taking notice of them despite what he said he would do. There are clear differences within Labour, but they are not so wide as those in the Tories. The big difference is that with their tiny number of supporters, the Tories in Westminster can ignore them, while the much larger number of members of the Labour party can make their voices heard, and are beginning to urge Corbyn to get on board with them. Sad to say, but at this crucial time he is becoming another Micheal Foot.
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You have adequately described the present hopeless state of the Labour Party which will keep the Tories in power. My support of Conservatives is quite easy as there is no other party fit for purpose to govern the UK. Fortunately the UK electorate agree that the Tories remain the best option. Having no allegiance to any party just makes you a Norman no friends without any clear idea on policy. May I suggest you stick with the Lib Dems, they are well used to being out of power and flip flopping around in ever decreasing circles.
 
superhorns said:
You have adequately described the present hopeless state of the Labour Party which will keep the Tories in power. My support of Conservatives is quite easy as there is no other party fit for purpose to govern the UK. Fortunately the UK electorate agree that the Tories remain the best option. Having no allegiance to any party just makes you a Norman no friends without any clear idea on policy. May I suggest you stick with the Lib Dems, they are well used to being out of power and flip flopping around in ever decreasing circles.
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I have also described the present hopeless state of the Tory party. Do you really think that a party that is not fit for purpose should be in charge of running the country? This is not about poll returns, but looking at what they are actually doing. Well from your previous comments we know that you are not in favour of the leadership, and want a change, yet strangely pump money into it. Fortunately for the country the rump has shown itself to be just that, not influential, but a minority within a party.
I actually have a very clear idea of what policy should be followed, and do press my MP at regular intervals. Unfortunately she never responds, but that does not surprise me as I know her from days of old. If either the Labour Party moved back from the left, or the Tories moved back from the right, one of them might get my vote, but currently like many others I find them both too extreme.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I have also described the present hopeless state of the Tory party. Do you really think that a party that is not fit for purpose should be in charge of running the country? This is not about poll returns, but looking at what they are actually doing. Well from your previous comments we know that you are not in favour of the leadership, and want a change, yet strangely pump money into it. Fortunately for the country the rump has shown itself to be just that, not influential, but a minority within a party.
I actually have a very clear idea of what policy should be followed, and do press my MP at regular intervals. Unfortunately she never responds, but that does not surprise me as I know her from days of old. If either the Labour Party moved back from the left, or the Tories moved back from the right, one of them might get my vote, but currently like many others I find them both too extreme.
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I have already said that the Labour Party are unfit for purpose so should not be trusted in government. The Tories obviously remain the only option. The UK does not have a presidential style government system so my support of the Tories does not hinge on the present leader. It is normal for the bulk of supporters of the two main UK political parties to always retain their affiliation to their chosen one. The minorities are the floating voters who often have less commitment, and usually understanding, of politics in general.

It is very easy to support the only party that can prevent the UK from being run by two Marxists who would quickly damage the UK's prosperity.

Have you got a date yet when your predicted Macron boy type leader will arrive on the UK's political scene?
 
superhorns said:
I have already said that the Labour Party are unfit for purpose so should not be trusted in government. The Tories obviously remain the only option. The UK does not have a presidential style government system so my support of the Tories does not hinge on the present leader. It is normal for the bulk of supporters of the two main UK political parties to always retain their affiliation to their chosen one. The minorities are the floating voters who often have less commitment, and usually understanding, of politics in general.

It is very easy to support the only party that can prevent the UK from being run by two Marxists who would quickly damage the UK's prosperity.

Have you got a date yet when your predicted Macron boy type leader will arrive on the UK's political scene?
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The Tories are living on borrowed time SH. Their electoral payback will be delayed until after Brexit is dried and dusted (in one way or the other) - it is their theme, and the general consensus is that they got us into this mess and so they should deal with it. Once over then they are facing electoral oblivion for the foreseeable future, even if they do survive as a party, which I doubt. Without the theme of Brexit dominating all debate, then Labour would be miles ahead in every opinion poll. Unfortunately Corbyn is the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time, for Labour. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place, because he needs the support of the 'basis' of the party - all those young idealists who joined because of him (he relies on them to keep the Blairites at bay), yet his stance on Brexit has alienated the very people he needs in order to survive. He has also alienated himself from any chance of coalition with the other opposition parties, as long as he dithers on Brexit. A great shame, because many of his other ideas are the right ones for Britain at the moment.
 
colognehornet said:
The Tories are living on borrowed time SH. Their electoral payback will be delayed until after Brexit is dried and dusted (in one way or the other) - it is their theme, and the general consensus is that they got us into this mess and so they should deal with it. Once over then they are facing electoral oblivion for the foreseeable future, even if they do survive as a party, which I doubt. Without the theme of Brexit dominating all debate, then Labour would be miles ahead in every opinion poll. Unfortunately Corbyn is the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time, for Labour. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place, because he needs the support of the 'basis' of the party - all those young idealists who joined because of him (he relies on them to keep the Blairites at bay), yet his stance on Brexit has alienated the very people he needs in order to survive. He has also alienated himself from any chance of coalition with the other opposition parties, as long as he dithers on Brexit. A great shame, because many of his other ideas are the right ones for Britain at the moment.
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You claim the Tories are living on borrowed time then you fully explain why they will remain in power, due to the hapless leadership of the Labour Party. I would also add the Momentum infiltration of the LP has, and will increasingly drive traditional supporters away from Labour. The obvious outcome is continued domination of UK politics by the Tories.
 
superhorns said:
You claim the Tories are living on borrowed time then you fully explain why they will remain in power, due to the hapless leadership of the Labour Party. I would also add the Momentum infiltration of the LP has, and will increasingly drive traditional supporters away from Labour. The obvious outcome is continued domination of UK politics by the Tories.
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It is not Momentum which is driving supporters away but rather Corbyn's stance (or lack of it) with regard to Brexit. This could be corrected overnight if Corbyn simply listened to the party and acted on that. The Tories problems go far deeper, but, as I said in my last post, they will receive their punishment once Brexit is no longer dominating the agenda. Labour's biggest problem is that the electorate has absolutely no idea what a Labour administration would do about Brexit.
 
colognehornet said:
It is not Momentum which is driving supporters away but rather Corbyn's stance (or lack of it) with regard to Brexit. This could be corrected overnight if Corbyn simply listened to the party and acted on that. The Tories problems go far deeper, but, as I said in my last post, they will receive their punishment once Brexit is no longer dominating the agenda. Labour's biggest problem is that the electorate has absolutely no idea what a Labour administration would do about Brexit.
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Momentum will continue to make Labour unelectable. Labour is now purging the moderates that manage to attract electoral support, a recipe for opposition for years to come.
 
Grayling in full swing again this morning. His trial run of taking lorries through Kent to Dover has not been going too well. He wanted 150 lorries to be stacked at Manston Airfield, and then see what problems it created as they moved south. Bit like his organisation of the trains, only half the lorries turned up. Still it does appear that after an hour, some lorries have made the thirty minute journey, along with a dustcart that was used to help make the numbers up. I am sure that this will help planning no end, seeing as the old airfield is expected to be used to hold back 6,000 lorries at any one time. The county council is warning that the services it provides which involve staff travelling are under threat as the roads become congested at best and gridlocked at worst. Still everyone should be happy if the latest views of Boris are read. This is what people voted for and want.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
Grayling in full swing again this morning. His trial run of taking lorries through Kent to Dover has not been going too well. He wanted 150 lorries to be stacked at Manston Airfield, and then see what problems it created as they moved south. Bit like his organisation of the trains, only half the lorries turned up. Still it does appear that after an hour, some lorries have made the thirty minute journey, along with a dustcart that was used to help make the numbers up. I am sure that this will help planning no end, seeing as the old airfield is expected to be used to hold back 6,000 lorries at any one time. The county council is warning that the services it provides which involve staff travelling are under threat as the roads become congested at best and gridlocked at worst. Still everyone should be happy if the latest views of Boris are read. This is what people voted for and want.
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We'll be happy when Freedom Day rolls around. Champagne at the ready.
 
colognehornet said:
Champagne !!!!! ??? <doh> Isn't that rather er....European ? Shouldn't you be stocking up on the Newcastle Brown Ale ?
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My only experience with Newcastle Brown Ale was at a Sunderland v Watford game in the late 60's /early 70's. not touched a drop since.

After Brexit our future great trade deals with the New World wine producing countries will provide the majority of plonk.
 
superhorns said:
My only experience with Newcastle Brown Ale was at a Sunderland v Watford game in the late 60's /early 70's. not touched a drop since.

After Brexit our future great trade deals with the New World wine producing countries will provide the majority of plonk.
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I much prefer Gaillac perle to Champagne anyway.
 
superhorns said:
My only experience with Newcastle Brown Ale was at a Sunderland v Watford game in the late 60's /early 70's. not touched a drop since.

After Brexit our future great trade deals with the New World wine producing countries will provide the majority of plonk.
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By the 'New World wine producing countries' I presume you mean the USA, Australia, Chile etc. So you envisage that World Shipping (which is at breaking point anyway), not to mention the environment, can accomodate a sudden increase in trans Atlantic container shipping ? This when our biggest container terminal is at Felixstowe ? Does it make sense to ship these things from places like Australia when the same product is obtainable from France ?
 
superhorns said:
My only experience with Newcastle Brown Ale was at a Sunderland v Watford game in the late 60's /early 70's. not touched a drop since.

After Brexit our future great trade deals with the New World wine producing countries will provide the majority of plonk.
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Wines from the New World are of a higher consistent quality and better VFM than the old EU producers - they are already outselling them in the UK in everything apart from Sparkling/Champagne. With a more advantageous trade agreement after Brexit with these countries to lower tariffs that trade can only increase - bring on Brexit!
 
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wear_yellow said:
Wines from the New World are of a higher consistent quality and better VFM than the old EU producers - they are already outselling them in the UK in everything apart from Sparkling/Champagne. With a more advantageous trade agreement after Brexit with these countries to lower tariffs that trade can only increase - bring on Brexit!
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What you are choosing to ignore is that the UK currently has advantageous trade conditions with over 50 World markets as a result of its EU membership - including with your 'New World wine producing countries'. These would all have to be renegotiated from scratch after Brexit. This means that your wines from Australia, Chile, South Africa etc. will also be subject to increased tariffs after Brexit.
 
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colognehornet said:
What you are choosing to ignore is that the UK currently has advantageous trade conditions with over 50 World markets as a result of its EU membership - including with your 'New World wine producing countries'. These would all have to be renegotiated from scratch after Brexit. This means that your wines from Australia, Chile, South Africa etc. will also be subject to increased tariffs after Brexit.
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Said it how it is. Shouldn't bother though...
 
I haven't watched much TV today, but what I have seen is ministers from the business department saying that no deal is not an option for the country. I have also read that the Home Office admit that illegal immigrants could not be returned to France as an example if the UK was out of the current agreements. I have also read how Tory MPs who have been loyal to the party for many years have finally been broken and will vote against anything that could lead to a no deal. The government says that reject our deal and it will lead to no deal, or no Brexit, but it has been pointed out to them that MPs have the power and are able to change the law.
Rumours, no more, that Article 50 could be extended. Wait until after next weeks vote on that one. Police now saying that not only Kent could be affected by gridlock on the roads, but now that the M3 between Winchester and Basingstoke would have to be closed due to the diversion of lorries to Portsmouth.
But I wonder if the real effect of this is the unacceptable behaviour in my opinion towards our MPs. I do not make a difference between Jacob Rees-Mogg getting doorstepped with his children, and Anna Soubry coming under abuse in Westminster, some people just do not realise how far you should go. Make a reasoned argument, but don't abuse people just because you don't agree with them.
 
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