Off Topic UK / EU Future

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I am afraid that SH is not a democrat. You cannot place your sovereignty in the hands of a MP, then say they should be ignored.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am afraid that SH is not a democrat. You cannot place your sovereignty in the hands of a MP, then say they should be ignored.
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You are clearly unaware of how the system works. The MP's have already voted on the rules of how the government should act on Brexit, that is why the MP's have a 'meaningful vote'. Ultimately it has has been democratically decided the government should govern.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am afraid that SH is not a democrat. You cannot place your sovereignty in the hands of a MP, then say they should be ignored.
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His idea of democracy is that we are all paralyzed by dead ghosts ie. by one moment, frozen in time, over 2 years ago. He does not understand that democracy is an ongoing thing. There is one thing which characterizes the British political system more than any other and that is the absolute sovereignty of parliament.
 
superhorns said:
You are clearly unaware of how the system works. The MP's have already voted on the rules of how the government should act on Brexit, that is why the MP's have a 'meaningful vote'. Ultimately it has has been democratically decided the government should govern.
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Government can only 'govern' when they have a majority in Parliament - that is the basis of democracy in the UK.
 
What SH. is trying to do is to see the result of his choice whipped through against the wishes of the Parliament and against the present wishes of the British people - whipped through by a minority of desperadoes whose zeal no longer comes from conviction but rather through the knowledge that they are finished politically if they do not achieve their aim. This based on a static result one day in history which has no relevance to the present wishes of the people, and was not even legally binding at the time.
 
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It worries me that people want to bend the democratic system that exists in the UK. Over the years we have seen how systems have been abused to fulfil the wishes of an extremist, or groups of extremists. This can lead to awful situations, which if you follow political history you would understand, but it is something that gets forgotten, and people fall into the same trap yet again.
 
So it appears that we are teetering on the brink of no deal. I had to giggle at the various articles from JRM and others in the Telegraph yesterday which complained that none of the forecasts released ever show the financial positives to exit and, most particularly, no deal. Perhaps that is because there aren't any scenarios in which we'd be better off - well certainly not in the short term. But it's interesting that the man who said it'll take 50 years to see the benefit should be complaining...

I saw him in Westminster the other day actually - we passes each other whilst crossing the road and there was a coach waiting for the lights to change. I'd be lying if I said the thought never crossed my mind. As it did when I saw Master Paisley last week....
 
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Meanwhile the person that you normally says the things you want to hear has a different take on what might happen.

Michael Gove has been forced to admit a second Brexit referendum is now a real possibility. “If we don’t get this deal through then there is a chance of no Brexit at all, or a second referendum.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Meanwhile the person that you normally says the things you want to hear has a different take on what might happen.

Michael Gove has been forced to admit a second Brexit referendum is now a real possibility. “If we don’t get this deal through then there is a chance of no Brexit at all, or a second referendum.
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He is clearly using a bit of project fear to encourage MP's to vote for May's deal, completely unsurprising.
 
superhorns said:
He is clearly using a bit of project fear to encourage MP's to vote for May's deal, completely unsurprising.
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I thought he put quite a decent case for the deal actually. I thought it was interesting that he thinks the backstop causes more problems for the EU than us. I'm not convinced on that but on balance think he's right that they should accept it.

He doesn't do project fear btw - and called the projections made this week wrong.
 
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There is a well known story about the Tory party, that the person who puts the knife in will not become leader. I might be misjudging him, but with his credentials as one of the leaders of the Brexit movement, and now someone who is supporting the PM, he has covered both sides if she is removed from office. Of course he might have seen the light, but I doubt that Boris would trust him.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
There is a well known story about the Tory party, that the person who puts the knife in will not become leader. I might be misjudging him, but with his credentials as one of the leaders of the Brexit movement, and now someone who is supporting the PM, he has covered both sides if she is removed from office. Of course he might have seen the light, but I doubt that Boris would trust him.
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Gove has positioned himself quite nicely, so has Fox. I'm sure positions in the post May Tory government has slipped their minds. :emoticon-0105-wink:
 
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