Off Topic UK / EU Future

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colognehornet said:
Maybe TM can debate with herself on BBC and Corbyn can do the same on ITV simultaneously, it wouldn't make much difference in terms of content.
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Quite true - Mrs May has set her stool out so to speak and Corbyn will just do his bit.

We all know this deal will be rejected in all likelihood.
 
I cannot see why either of them would want to do this. If they were trying to influence people to vote in a certain way, maybe, but they are not. She sat in front of the commons committee for 90 minutes today and didn't answer a single question. If she carried on like that in what is supposed to be a debate it can only turn people off even more. Maybe that is the plan from both of them; bore everyone to death.
 
The PM goes to Scotland for a couple of hours, meets a dozen handpicked people to talk to, then returns to London and proclaims that the country wants to get behind her deal. This is delusion of the highest order if she actually believes it.
Meanwhile the disgraced Minister Liam Fox has been giving half hearted support to the PM. It was important to have a “balance,” he said, adding: “We could certainly have a trade policy that was much freer that is for sure. But it would mean a loss of access to the EU market, which is 44% of the UK’s exports. That’s a lot of jobs. A lot of profits.” So he now sees there might just be a little bit of a problem with his no deal mantra. I think he is hoping to keep his collection of air miles going a bit longer.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I cannot see why either of them would want to do this. If they were trying to influence people to vote in a certain way, maybe, but they are not. She sat in front of the commons committee for 90 minutes today and didn't answer a single question. If she carried on like that in what is supposed to be a debate it can only turn people off even more. Maybe that is the plan from both of them; bore everyone to death.
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I can't see the point of it either Frenchie. We really have reached a historical turning point because never in British Parliamentary history has a Prime Minister been so dependent on votes from the opposition as TM is now. Without Labour MPs she cannot get this through. On their side Labour must do their maths correctly - if they do not have the numbers in Parliament to force either a General Election, a second referendum or that MPs scrap Brexit altogether, then they have to vote for May's deal whether they like it or not.
 
The natural political party for government in the UK, the Tories, has regained its dominance in the polls with a 5% lead over Labour. This is astonishing with the current disagreement over May's iffy plan. There is a real lack of trust in the current Labour leadership.
 
superhorns said:
The natural political party for government in the UK, the Tories, has regained its dominance in the polls with a 5% lead over Labour. This is astonishing with the current disagreement over May's iffy plan. There is a real lack of trust in the current Labour leadership.
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Where do you get this from and why can I not find it anywhere on the net ? From one of your comics ? And what does it have to do with the subject being discussed ?
 
colognehornet said:
Where do you get this from and why can I not find it anywhere on the net ? From one of your comics ? And what does it have to do with the subject being discussed ?
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You are obviously not looking in the right places. Try YouGov.


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According to the Telegraph, roughly a third of Tory MPs will not support their PM. Another third are employed by the government in way or another, so there is no way of telling what degree of support she has from them unless they resign. So there are only a third of her MPs who are certainly supporting her. Seeing as she is so unpopular, why did the ERG have to make themselves look so foolish calling for just 48 letters to have her removed, and failing to get them sent?
What current polls are showing are that the population would rather stay in the EU in preference to accepting the May proposal or the No Deal departure. Clearly as the people realise that they were sold something that could never happen, they are facing up to making hard decisions. After two years of any government it is normal for people to change their minds, and this has happened. To say that they cannot is not democracy.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...Times_181127_BrexitDeal_VI_Trackers_bpc_w.pdf

What SH doesn't wish to point out is from this poll, is that the majority of people want to stay in the EU rather than leave under the other options available.
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Many on this site have banged on about the importance of MP's making the decisions so this is what will happen with the final stages of Brexit. Accept the deal or leave with no deal. Any attempted at amendments legally carry no weight.
 
superhorns said:
Many on this site have banged on about the importance of MP's making the decisions so this is what will happen with the final stages of Brexit. Accept the deal or leave with no deal. Any attempted at amendments legally carry no weight.
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You are in denial SH. Of course MPs should be the ones to take the final decision on what happens next, I don't think anyone now disputes that. What happens if they vote to say that the country cannot leave with the no deal option? They also reject the current deal. What happens then? Do you want the government to go against the elected MPs? If so you are placing democracy on a very slippery slope.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
You are in denial SH. Of course MPs should be the ones to take the final decision on what happens next, I don't think anyone now disputes that. What happens if they vote to say that the country cannot leave with the no deal option? They also reject the current deal. What happens then? Do you want the government to go against the elected MPs? If so you are placing democracy on a very slippery slope.
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Not in denial, just giving you the legal position. The government is under no obligation to accept any amendments. The slippery slope would be having a second referendum therefore nullifying the once in a generation 2016 referendum.
 
superhorns said:
Not in denial, just giving you the legal position. The government is under no obligation to accept any amendments. The slippery slope would be having a second referendum therefore nullifying the once in a generation 2016 referendum.
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You have side stepped the actual question. Are you saying that the government should ignore the MPs.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
You have side stepped the actual question. Are you saying that the government should ignore the MPs.
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Yes, if it fails to honour the 2016 referendum result.

We are just off to celebrate the diverse and splendid Bangladeshi culture with a curry along with some friends. Brexit can wait till tomorrow. :emoticon-0105-wink:
 
superhorns said:
Not in denial, just giving you the legal position. The government is under no obligation to accept any amendments. The slippery slope would be having a second referendum therefore nullifying the once in a generation 2016 referendum.
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I do not know why you are arguing in this way SH. It appears counterproductive to your own aims. You obviously want Parliament to reject TMs deal - yet, emphasize that there is only a choice between her deal and no deal - if that is the case then she can only win.
 
colognehornet said:
I do not know why you are arguing in this way SH. It appears counterproductive to your own aims. You obviously want Parliament to reject TMs deal - yet, emphasize that there is only a choice between her deal and no deal - if that is the case then she can only win.
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Bring it on.
 
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