Off Topic UK / EU Future

[superhorns]

Alas, Mrs Fez is a bit of a fan of the Dead Witch, but even she can't stomach this lot. She voted leave, a decision she bitterly regrets and would vote Remain given the chance. The DWP related deaths; the cuts to the emergency services and the NHS; the proliferation of foodbanks;

HS2; the cuts to the Armed Forces; have all left her, like me, politically disenfranchised. ​

No, we do not talk politics at home per se but I know her opinions on the subjects mentioned.

I've listed all the things I stand for politically a couple of years ago on these boards. I just detest the blatant dishonesty of the DUP, GOP and the right wing of the tory party.

So can I take it you're not interested in my raffle tickets in aid of the Conservative party ?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Interesting debate in the Lords tonight, where people from both sides and the cross benches were calling one after another for a second referendum on the basis that no one could possibly have voted for the half in, half out proposal that is before us. Request the clock be stopped for that to take place and have a straight accept the deal, or remain question. The government minister winding up the debate more or less appealed for the moderates in the Labour Party to come to the rescue of the government. I suppose he could do that rather more easily than a Minister in the Commons which tends to get reported more.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

As requested I have posted this about the meeting I attended last night. There was a lot more detail and comment during the three hours than I have reported, and the events of today will have done nothing to clarify the situation.

The meeting was all about residence requirements after Brexit. The existing arrangements do not require any as you will know, but with the UK becoming a third country that situation cannot continue. There was a system in place for non-EU citizens, but it had started to creak at the seams when UK nationals started to apply to safeguard their positions. A new system has been brought in to try and mitigate the cost for the French authorities, but they will not charge the UK citizens to be issued with permits. Basically they have set up a network of help for us, arranging meetings similar to the one last night, where the sous prefect attended, staff from immigration, translators to help those with language problems and power point presentations in English to inform on the forms that will have to be filled in. Local offices will all have staff put in with knowledge to help. Websites for the department are being set up. The preliminary one for the Vienne is on -line, but will not be finished until the 5th December.

What became clear during the session of questions was that many individuals have specific issues. An example was where a couple who have lived here for years have an elderly mother living with them. The mother has no bills or anything to prove that she has lived here for the five years that is the requirement for permanent residence permits. You really do need to keep all those bills. I just hope that the authorities here have plenty of warehouse space to keep the mountain of paperwork this will generate. They are clearly very unhappy that they are having to go to all this trouble and cost, for something that is beyond their control.

Talks have been ongoing with the Embassy in Paris, but they are as much in the dark as any of us, simply because there is no clear political situation in Westminster. They can only advise that people should apply for the permits, which has created the situation.

 

[superhorns]

Theresa May has made it perfectly clear today that while she remains as PM there will never be another referendum. If she is replaced by a Brexiteer then even less likely. The options are narrowing.

 

[colognehornet]

Theresa May has made it perfectly clear today that while she remains as PM there will never be another referendum. If she is replaced by a Brexiteer then even less likely. The options are narrowing.

I think she speaks in riddles SH. She says that it will be either 'her Brexit' or there may not be a Brexit at all
- what exactly does that mean ? How can there be 'no Brexit' without either withdrawing the Article 50 application or having a second referendum on the matter ?

 

[Deleted.......]

Theresa May has made it perfectly clear today that while she remains as PM there will never be another referendum. If she is replaced by a Brexiteer then even less likely. The options are narrowing.

You think a politician is going to keep their word? What's Santa bringing you this year?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Theresa May has made it perfectly clear today that while she remains as PM there will never be another referendum. If she is replaced by a Brexiteer then even less likely. The options are narrowing.

I would be interested to know what you see as the sequence of events that will see her go.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Yesterday I watched Gove in a real charm offensive during the second reading of the Fisheries Bill. Today he was stood at the bar of the house with a smile on his face as May was given a work over by all sides of the Commons. I couldn't see his hands, but guess that one could have been holding the same knife he used on Boris.

 

[Deleted.......]

Yesterday I watched Gove in a real charm offensive during the second reading of the Fisheries Bill. Today he was stood at the bar of the house with a smile on his face as May was given a work over by all sides of the Commons. I couldn't see his hands, but guess that one could have been holding the same knife he used on Boris.

He deserves to be run out of politics for good. Anyone who stands on the floor of the House in a fisheries debate and says "there are some who want to have their hake and eat it" has no place in a civilised society

Still, not as bad as Charles Walker who painted a picture of the UK rivalling Florida or Bermuda as the premier game fishing resort on Earth. Is he MP for Lowestoft, Rye, Dover, Fleetwood or Falmouth? Nope - that well known fishing town of Broxbourne

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

I did wonder more than once why MPs were more interested in talking about angling than deep sea fishing. Is this the way that some believe we can supply the chippy?

 

[Mexican Hornet]

Quick sort of (un)related question.

I just had to get a new passport. It came through this week. It runs to Nov 2028.

Will I have to change it when this **** gets sorted?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Quick sort of (un)related question.

I just had to get a new passport. It came through this week. It runs to Nov 2028.

Will I have to change it when this **** gets sorted?

From what has been said so far, it will last until 2028
You might of course want to spend out and get one with a blue cover before then.

 

[Mexican Hornet]

From what has been said so far, it will last until 2028
You might of course want to spend out and get one with a blue cover before then.

Cheers, thought as much, might get a Mexican one but not really as boarder friendly as the GB one. Hopefully it'll last the 10 years.

 

[Saf]

I seen the riots in Marseille recently, seems the French people don't care for Macron anymore.

The remain side seem convinced that if another referendum was to take place (not going to happen) the result would somehow be different. Business owners who I work alongside, who voted remain, have told me if the vote was to happen again, then they would have no choice but to vote leave because of their passion for democracy. You simply cannot keep voting until you get the result that you want. Didn't the EU do the same thing with Ireland

 

[Deleted.......]

I did wonder more than once why MPs were more interested in talking about angling than deep sea fishing. Is this the way that some believe we can supply the chippy?

Angling is the biggest participation sport in the country and contributes a ridiculous amount to the economy. But like everything the benefits are overstated.

 

[Deleted.......]

I seen the riots in Marseille recently, seems the French people don't care for Macron anymore.

The remain side seem convinced that if another referendum was to take place (not going to happen) the result would somehow be different. Business owners who I work alongside, who voted remain, have told me if the vote was to happen again, then they would have no choice but to vote leave because of their passion for democracy. You simply cannot keep voting until you get the result that you want. Didn't the EU do the same thing with Ireland

No the EU did not do the same thing with Ireland - but you knew that already.

 

[Saf]

No the EU did not do the same thing with Ireland - but you knew that already.

Oh, I genuinely didn't.

I was on the understanding that Ireland voted against the Lisbon treaty but got lumped with it anyway?

 

[Deleted.......]

Oh, I genuinely didn't.

I was on the understanding that Ireland voted against the Lisbon treaty but got lumped with it anyway?

Their government had a second go - could have told the EU to get stuffed.

 

[Saf]

Their government had a second go - could have told the EU to get stuffed.

Oh, did their government have the EU weighing down on them? They should have never been a second vote, that's not democracy. It's not just Ireland, three separate countries it's happened with and we heading to be the 4th. Potentially.

 

[Hornet-Fez]

I seen the riots in Marseille recently, seems the French people don't care for Macron anymore.

The remain side seem convinced that if another referendum was to take place (not going to happen) the result would somehow be different. Business owners who I work alongside, who voted remain, have told me if the vote was to happen again, then they would have no choice but to vote leave because of their passion for democracy. You simply cannot keep voting until you get the result that you want. Didn't the EU do the same thing with Ireland

I keep seeing that "argument" and even the otherwise excellent Jonathan Pie makes it... it is wholly wrong, of course. We, all of us, have been properly lied to, particularly by the leave campaign. Also we may have an opportunity to ensure that, having shot ourselves in one foot, we don't shoot ourselves in the head for an encore.
Nobody voted to be poor, yet that is exactly what our non-dom, tax avoiding, billionaire, media moguls would have us do. The coal is gone. The oil isn't ours. There is no heavy industry that isn't tied to the EU or overseas, ditto our technological industry - which is mainly R&D not manufacturing (yes, you Dyson) - and so on.
Nobody voted to be insecure: but border checks aren't the be all and end all, just making things more awkward. Had various governments utilised the powers at their disposal we wouldn't have the xenophobic attitudes that a significant, vociferous, minority possess.
Trading difficulties will see us cut back on environmental protections, workers rights, workers safety, the NHS....
The EU isn't perfect, far from it, but you cannot effect change from the outside. We are patently not going to get any helpful deal in leaving the EU (and why should we?) and getting a reasonable deal on WTO terms is proving, at best, problematical.
Even nazinige said that a 52-48 result would be "unfinished business". Give him his due on that: he's not wrong. But still, blue passports eh? Fabrique en France. nazinige has a German one, so he's alright when it al goes properly tits up.