You will never get a true picture of this SH. Normally in referendums, the Government offers something which they want to do and then ask the electorate to say 'Yay' or 'Nay - that way, the worst that can happen (as far as the government is concerned) is that nothing happens. Doing it the way Cameron did is like a walking invitation towards a protest vote ie. against an unpopular government, and that is exactly what happened. Taking a risk like this on a first past the post referendum, with the standard of gutter media which Britain has was a walking invitation to disaster. This must go down as the biggest mistake ever made by a British PM.
Off Topic UK / EU Future
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The real truth, which you can see in Parliament, is that there is a hard Brexit, a soft Brexit, a Brexit that leaves the country with more control over immigration in some peoples minds, but not one that will have an effect on their jobs, a Brexit that will give us all the benefits, but none of the costs, a Brexit that allows us to travel as we wish, but stop others from doing the same. There are many other things that some believed Brexit meant, so there is no definition of what it actually is, allowing people to believe that what they want is the real thing. Of course with such a vague notion of what it actually is, there will never be agreement in Westminster.
I cannot recall the same arguments during the referendum 40 odd years ago, again, is it something to do with the result?
The referendum 40 years ago did not leave the government having to push through a change which none of them agreed with. Becides which I was not posting on football forums 40 years ago.
To offer a democratic referendum on the changing face of EU membership was long overdue. It was probably the best decision ever taken by a British PM. Of course the eurocrats hate the populace actually having a say in case they disagree with the federalist plans. Didn't the Macron boy say he dare not have one in France because they would vote for Frexit?
The referendum 40 years ago did not leave the government having to push through a change which none of them agreed with. Becides which I was not posting on football forums 40 years ago.
I did not say it was you deciding not to complain about the process but others. They accepted the process then, it should be accepted likewise now, stop whinging.
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I was only 5 so it's a bit unreasonable to expect me to remember!The referendum 40 years ago did not leave the government having to push through a change which none of them agreed with. Becides which I was not posting on football forums 40 years ago.
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Nah - never made much sense and lived in a fantasy world at that age so everyone thought I would become a Conservative MP.Was you a budding civil servant then?
I don't recall Macron saying this, can you produce the evidence ? Also, nobody was asking Britain to join in with a federalist Europe.
The problem is the eurocrats don't want to ask anybody, they just decide on policy.
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I am - trying to make Brexit work. That would have Roald Dahl and Terry Pratchett saying "nope - it's utterly ridiculous and nobody will believe it".
France would've voted to leave EU too if in UK's situation, French ...https://www.cnbc.com/.../france-would-have-voted-to-leave-eu-too-if-in-uk-situation-...
France would have left EU in similar referendum to UK's, says Macron ...https://www.theguardian.com/world/.../emmanuel-macron-uk-yes-no-brexit-vote-mistak...
Not a case of whinging SH. Just that I want to see democracy done in this case - it would be profoundly undemocratic if Britain were to leave at a time when the majority of the population are no longer in favour of doing so - it would also be an insult to citizens rights to have citizenship forcibly taken away from millions of people in this way. There is no personal whinging here because I have dual nationality, and could, quite easily turn my back and say I don't give a monkeys either way, but that would be a very selfish attitude.
You need to stop listening to those remainers around trying to sabotage Brexit.
It is high time you faced up to reality SH. The wheels have come off the Brexit project, and you are losing. The hard Brexit which you favour has the support of about 40 MPs and a minority in the population - just a noisy minority. Recent polls suggest that only 14% of the electorate favours a hard, or a no deal Brexit. Whilst May's plan may not gain a majority in Parliament, it is the only sort of Brexit which will have the support of the electorate. Recent polls suggest that 45% of the electorate are against Brexit in all shapes and forms, 40% want to maintain close contact to the EU. and have access to the single market, and only about 15% want the type of Brexit which you desire. It means that if May's plan is not supported, that it can only go one way ie. a second referendum with the option of scrapping the whole thing. The people who voted for Brexit did so under the assumption that the EU. was going to cave in and allow Britain to cherry pick - apparently the German car industry was going to twist Merkel's arm and she would come riding in on a white horse and correct everything in Britain's favour - you have said this yourself on many occasions. It has all failed to materialize as you wanted. The suggestion that there may be civil unrest in the UK. if a second referendum is offerred, and the noisy minority are thwarted. is empty compared to the civil unrest of a hard Brexit which is against the wishes of the majority - which will, in all probability, trigger a general strike in the UK. For those worried about EU. immigration - this can be allayed by simply following current EU. laws to the letter, meaning that those without subsistence can be asked to leave, as is possible now and in all other EU. countries. The choice is a nasty one for you - either support May or you will get no Brexit of any sort, because the minute May's deal is voted down the clock starts ticking towards a new referendum - despite her rhetoric on this, she has already indicated that this will be the only possibility.
The Sunday Times ran a piece yesterday saying that the Brexit department have been looking into the running of a second referendum. No way of knowing how true that is, but the civil service does have to be ready for all eventualities.
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Not necessarily idiots: selfish, naiive, conned, xenophobic, racist (can't imagine any racists voting to remain, but no, not everyone who voted leave is racist)... note how many rats are making sure that they can desert the sinking ship...
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