Off Topic UK / EU Future

[superhorns]

Let me think about what is happening shortly. Oh yes, it is the Tory party conference. Cannot say anything yet to upset the party members. Meanwhile the true workhorses on both sides continue to work towards a form of words that will produce the offer of some sort of deal. Seeing as there is now little dispute that remain voters are in the majority, it shouldn't be too difficult for the population to accept something that looks very similar to what currently exists.

The decision on a deal is nothing to do with the population because they will not be asked again.

The pressure from the hard Brexiteers will concentrate the minds of the EU's negotiators, do a deal with May or find themselves dealing with a proper Brexiteer. No deal no ransom payment.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

The decision on a deal is nothing to do with the population because they will not be asked again.

The pressure from the hard Brexiteers will concentrate the minds of the EU's negotiators, do a deal with May or find themselves dealing with a proper Brexiteer. No deal no ransom payment.

Can you put forward a reasoned way in which May is going to be replaced? Timescales would be helpful. Sorry I do not accept that the rump of Tory MPs will have any effect on how professionals carry out their tasks.

 

[colognehornet]

The decision on a deal is nothing to do with the population because they will not be asked again.

The pressure from the hard Brexiteers will concentrate the minds of the EU's negotiators, do a deal with May or find themselves dealing with a proper Brexiteer. No deal no ransom payment.

You do not have a mandate for hard Brexit, nor do you have a mandate for a hard Brexiteer governing the country. Brexit is also not the mandate for the type of right wing coup you are dreaming of. How is Britain going to heal the rift which has been created through this whole sorry episode ? Essentially one half of Britain is forcing the other half to give up their rights of EU. citizenship against their will - rights which they have grown up with. Together with forcing two countries (Scotland and N. Ireland) to sever a connection which was/is important to them. Where is the recognition on the Brexit side that this might just be a violent incursion into other people's rights ? Where is the search for reconciliation ? Just the same old mantras - 'Brexit means Brexit', 'You lost, get over it'. After all this fiasco the British will have to get down to living together again (in or out of the EU.) can they do this ?

 

[superhorns]

You do not have a mandate for hard Brexit, nor do you have a mandate for a hard Brexiteer governing the country. Brexit is also not the mandate for the type of right wing coup you are dreaming of. How is Britain going to heal the rift which has been created through this whole sorry episode ? Essentially one half of Britain is forcing the other half to give up their rights of EU. citizenship against their will - rights which they have grown up with. Together with forcing two countries (Scotland and N. Ireland) to sever a connection which was/is important to them. Where is the recognition on the Brexit side that this might just be a violent incursion into other people's rights ? Where is the search for reconciliation ? Just the same old mantras - 'Brexit means Brexit', 'You lost, get over it'. After all this fiasco the British will have to get down to living together again (in or out of the EU.) can they do this ?

Basically your problem stems from you not actually accepting the democratic result, until you do you will forlornly hope for a miracle reverse. It ain't going to happen.

 

[superhorns]

Can you put forward a reasoned way in which May is going to be replaced? Timescales would be helpful. Sorry I do not accept that the rump of Tory MPs will have any effect on how professionals carry out their tasks.

You would have to ask Graham Brady how close May is to being replaced as PM. Influential Brexiteers MPs currently would like her to stay but to accept the inevitable and accept her civil service inspired limp Chequers plan is a dead duck. It is now being mooted that next April is an ideal time to ditch her for somebody who really believes in Brexit.

 

[colognehornet]

Basically your problem stems from you not actually accepting the democratic result, until you do you will forlornly hope for a miracle reverse. It ain't going to happen.

I appears that you also have a problem accepting democratic results, because TM. is also there because of the will of the people and any attempt to replace her with a right wing coup would be against that will.

 

[superhorns]

I appears that you also have a problem accepting democratic results, because TM. is also there because of the will of the people and any attempt to replace her with a right wing coup would be against that will.

Incorrect. May is in place because she is the current choice of the Tory party. The democratic process in changing the leader in our party relies on enough MPs to be dissatisfied to allow a leadership election. Candidate will be then whittled down to two by MPs then I, and other members, will be able to chose between them. Undoubtedly the political party membership will chose the most eurosceptic candidate.

You can rely on me to chose the best leader for our country.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

You would have to ask Graham Brady how close May is to being replaced as PM. Influential Brexiteers MPs currently would like her to stay but to accept the inevitable and accept her civil service inspired limp Chequers plan is a dead duck. It is now being mooted that next April is an ideal time to ditch her for somebody who really believes in Brexit.

Graham Brady only knows the number of letters he has received, not the way that half the Tory MPs party would vote. If she is there is April it would seem rather late to try for a change in policy. Total Mayhem within spreading to the country as a whole.

 

[superhorns]

Graham Brady only knows the number of letters he has received, not the way that half the Tory MPs party would vote. If she is there is April it would seem rather late to try for a change in policy. Total Mayhem within spreading to the country as a whole.

Everybody knows Chequers will not get through parliament. May will not dare concede anymore ground. The EU will have to start negotiating seriously or there will be no deal and no ransom paid. The UK will just extend the majority of business it currently does on WTO terms to cover any EU business.

The EU leaders are almost unanimous in demanding another referendum, they don't seem to understand how democracy works. They have obviously been influenced by dodgy Brussels tactics over the years.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

Nigel Farage: In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.

Jacob Rees-Mogg: you could have two referendums, and it may make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation is completed.

David Davis: If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.

I wonder who influenced the above to make these statements? All three must be in favour of holding a second vote based on their statements. I expect Mogg and Davis to lead calls for one, or are they frightened that the public have changed their minds.

 

[superhorns]

Nigel Farage: In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.

Jacob Rees-Mogg: you could have two referendums, and it may make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation is completed.

David Davis: If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.

I wonder who influenced the above to make these statements? All three must be in favour of holding a second vote based on their statements. I expect Mogg and Davis to lead calls for one, or are they frightened that the public have changed their minds.

If that is the last in a long list of your failed interventions in stopping Brexit your should wave the yellow flag now.
They respect democracy far too much to deny the will of the people. The PM has categorically ruled out a second referendum, keep up.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

If that is the last in a long list of your failed interventions in stopping Brexit your should wave the yellow flag now.
They respect democracy far too much to deny the will of the people. The PM has categorically ruled out a second referendum, keep up.

If I were to believe that the PM never changed her mind I might take notice of what she said. However we all know that she is not that constant, hence the disaster of an election that she wasn't going to call.

 

[superhorns]

If I were to believe that the PM never changed her mind I might take notice of what she said. However we all know that she is not that constant, hence the disaster of an election that she wasn't going to call.

It seems cast iron to me.

"I want to be absolutely clear, this government will never accept a second referendum" she said yesterday.

I suppose you have a one in a million chance, keep hoping.

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

"I’m not going to be calling a snap election" Theresa May ( Sept 2016) BBC News

Amazing that you have paid up to support this PM who blows with the wind.

 

[superhorns]

"I’m not going to be calling a snap election" Theresa May ( Sept 2016) BBC News

Amazing that you have paid up to support this PM who blows with the wind.

I've paid my £25 to elect a successor who is the most eurosceptic to lead our country.

 

[colognehornet]

Another of her quotes before the referendum was:
''It is not clear why other EU. member states would give Britain a better deal than they themselves enjoy''
Yet she is now asking for exactly that ! Britain wants to continue to enjoy the perks of EU. membership such as tariff free access to the largest market of the World, and, of course, the preferential treatment in 50 others which it currently enjoys as a EU. member. This all without being part of the EU. single market. Without agreeing to the rules of the EU. and it's market. Without being subject to the rules of the ECJ to oversee those rules. And without paying anything to the EU. for access.

Is there any club in the World which allows the same benefits to non members as to members ? Yet May is asking for a new agreement which is unique to us, that no other country in the World has achieved, and which keeps the perks of membership without any of the responsibilities. Naturally when the EU. states, quite rightly, 'life is not like that', they are accused by the right wing British press of being intransigent - you really couldn't make this all up.

 

[superhorns]

Donald Tusk has finally buried May's silly civil servant concocted Chequers plan saying it 'will not work'. She needs to start forming a Canada plus plus deal a.s.a.p. or stand aside to let a proper Brexiteer negotiate on our behalf.

 

[colognehornet]

I've paid my £25 to elect a successor who is the most eurosceptic to lead our country.

I can remember when Cameron said across the house to Corbyn ''For heavens sake man go'' - little did we know that Cameron would go first. If May also 'goes' than Corbyn will have faced 3 Tory leaders across the house. Just how many times can a ruling party change their leader before the whole thing reeks so much of incompetence that the voters turn away in droves ? A couple more of these and Jeremy will have the record of having faced the largest number of leaders across the house - an honour which you would normally expect of the PM.

 

[superhorns]

I can remember when Cameron said across the house to Corbyn ''For heavens sake man go'' - little did we know that Cameron would go first. If May also 'goes' than Corbyn will have faced 3 Tory leaders across the house. Just how many times can a ruling party change their leader before the whole thing reeks so much of incompetence that the voters turn away in droves ? A couple more of these and Jeremy will have the record of having faced the largest number of leaders across the house - an honour which you would normally expect of the PM.

The only damage comrade Corbyn can do while in opposition is to his own party, which has been significant. The LP should be miles ahead in the polls but the public clearly do not trust the current Momentum leadership. Will losing four elections in a row be a record next time for Labour?

 

[oldfrenchhorn]

That turned into a personal catastrophe for May. She went to meet the leaders hoping that her plan would move things forward, and she could then go to conference saying that she had success, and see what having strong and stable leadership produces. It is beyond me why she goes on digging herself into even deeper holes. So now we are told that a new plan will be produced. I am not sure how much longer the EU can continue to prop her up, but should she fail at conference then the calls for her to go will increase. The problem with that is that the UK would need extra time to go through a leadership election, and would have to request the EU to extend the Article 50 talks. It would be quicker to rescind the laws passed on the March deadline, it could be done in one day, than it would for the Tories to organise their election with the various stages that it must go through.