Off Topic UK / EU Future

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The real problem currently is that the UK doesn't have a government as we know it, just a single political party that cannot even agree with itself. It should be having a fairly smooth ride with the opposition also trying to define itself, but no, it just lurches from one quick fix to the next one. Planning ahead is impossible if you do not know where you are trying to get to, and there are so many different destinations with varying methods of transport, that even the most seasoned traveller would get lost before leaving home.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
The real problem currently is that the UK doesn't have a government as we know it, just a single political party that cannot even agree with itself. It should be having a fairly smooth ride with the opposition also trying to define itself, but no, it just lurches from one quick fix to the next one. Planning ahead is impossible if you do not know where you are trying to get to, and there are so many different destinations with varying methods of transport, that even the most seasoned traveller would get lost before leaving home.
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Having experienced UK governments since the early 60's I find this a strange comment. Most UK governments have been from one single party and all governments and political parties have members with differing views. The difference now is a government faced with a huge task without a majority. It does not help with people like yourself that are blinkered to the real cause of the difficulties in the negotiations. The EU have put barriers in place which have been specifically designed to cause maximum problems for the UK government. The desire to punish any EU member that dares to leave the project is paramount. Just like dealing with any bullies, the UK should meet the EU head on, take some crap then move on.
 
superhorns said:
Having experienced UK governments since the early 60's I find this a strange comment. Most UK governments have been from one single party and all governments and political parties have members with differing views. The difference now is a government faced with a huge task without a majority. It does not help with people like yourself that are blinkered to the real cause of the difficulties in the negotiations. The EU have put barriers in place which have been specifically designed to cause maximum problems for the UK government. The desire to punish any EU member that dares to leave the project is paramount. Just like dealing with any bullies, the UK should meet the EU head on, take some crap then move on.
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What nonsense. You are talking like the kid in the playground who has just put a ball through the classroom window. You knew what the rules were, no ball games, yet you chose to ignore it, and now you have been caught out you want the rules to be changed to get you out of trouble. Time to admit you were wrong and stopped trying to say that you only kicked the ball because a mate told you to do it. Time to accept that it is not the fault of the EU that you have a minority government. It is not people like me who have pointed out the difficulties of leaving since before the referendum, but people like you who were conned into believing that it would all be so simple, and now cast around to blame anyone but themselves for the chaos of making the wrong decision.
 
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oldfrenchhorn said:
What nonsense. You are talking like the kid in the playground who has just put a ball through the classroom window. You knew what the rules were, no ball games, yet you chose to ignore it, and now you have been caught out you want the rules to be changed to get you out of trouble. Time to admit you were wrong and stopped trying to say that you only kicked the ball because a mate told you to do it. Time to accept that it is not the fault of the EU that you have a minority government. It is not people like me who have pointed out the difficulties of leaving since before the referendum, but people like you who were conned into believing that it would all be so simple, and now cast around to blame anyone but themselves for the chaos of making the wrong decision.
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Your analogies are rather silly and inaccurate. It was always going to be difficult leaving the EU with it's fear of contagion and France and Germany hoping to take advantage of the changes.

Your timidness and fear must stem from doubts about being an expat in France. You need to hope the French are more reasonable towards you than they have shown to be towards the UK in general.
 
Why don't we agree on a few things.
1 We voted to leave the EU
2 There were lots of reasons given but no two people would have had identical reasons.
3 Promises and forecasts were made that have turned out to be false so relying on them is impossible
4 The referendum did not specify what "leave" meant in detail so it simply comes down to not being a member of the EU.
5 That leaves open a huge range of possible brexits from extremes of "no-deal" to "Norway-deal" Both of those ARE brexit.
6 The government have subsequently failed to even agree amongst themselves what form of brexit they want.
7 TM has drawn and redrawn red lines - but they are only the view of a portion of the Tory party.
8 Any other party is likely to negotiate a deal closer to Norway than any other form.
9 The EU were never going to give the UK a deal that made other countries feel "exit" was a good option for them.
10 Anybody who thought undoing 40+ years of membership of the EU would be easy is naive.

Are any of those statements incorrect?
 
superhorns said:
Your analogies are rather silly and inaccurate. It was always going to be difficult leaving the EU with it's fear of contagion and France and Germany hoping to take advantage of the changes.

Your timidness and fear must stem from doubts about being an expat in France. You need to hope the French are more reasonable towards you than they have shown to be towards the UK in general.
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It is not 'difficult to leave the EU' SH. It is very easy - you just do it. The difficulty arises because you still want something from it - ie. to cherry pick the advantages of membership without any of the obligations. Apparently the EU. are being obstinate for not playing along with this game.
 
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colognehornet said:
It is not 'difficult to leave the EU' SH. It is very easy - you just do it. The difficulty arises because you still want something from it - ie. to cherry pick the advantages of membership without any of the obligations. Apparently the EU. are being obstinate for not playing along with this game.
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Incorrect, the UK is looking for a free trade deal without uncontrolled immigration from the EU. This is not a condition the EU has tried to foist onto other nations it has agreed trade deals with.
 
superhorns said:
Having experienced UK governments since the early 60's I find this a strange comment. Most UK governments have been from one single party and all governments and political parties have members with differing views. The difference now is a government faced with a huge task without a majority. It does not help with people like yourself that are blinkered to the real cause of the difficulties in the negotiations. The EU have put barriers in place which have been specifically designed to cause maximum problems for the UK government. The desire to punish any EU member that dares to leave the project is paramount. Just like dealing with any bullies, the UK should meet the EU head on, take some crap then move on.
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Surely the EU aren't trying to punish the UK they are doing what the union was set up for and protecting / getting the best deal the states that remain ? If it were Spain for example leaving and we were staying you wouldn't want them to get all the good bits without paying in ?
 
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Ethelhorn said:
Surely the EU aren't trying to punish the UK they are doing what the union was set up for and protecting / getting the best deal the states that remain ? If it were Spain for example leaving and we were staying you wouldn't want them to get all the good bits without paying in ?
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The UK is simply requesting a trading relationship similar to those it has arrange before with others without uncontrolled immigration lumped in.
 
superhorns said:
The UK is simply requesting a trading relationship similar to those it has arrange before with others without uncontrolled immigration lumped in.
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So you only want a free trade deal, nothing else? You don't want access to any of the EU agencies that the government is pushing to be allowed to use?
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
So you only want a free trade deal, nothing else? You don't want access to any of the EU agencies that the government is pushing to be allowed to use?
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I want the UK to decide on merit which agencies it choices to be part of. The financial cost would have to be justified.
 
Leo said:
What is your position regarding the Irish border SH?
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I see no reason why the EU cannot agree to a free trade deal which allows business to continue as now. This would benefit all. The problem is the EU sees this as cherry picking and could potentially encourage others to loosen the stranglehold Brussels currently holds over member countries.

If there is no deal it will be the EU which demands a hard border not the UK.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I thought that the ECJ was one of your personal red lines.
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It was one of the UK governments. Each joint venture would depend on the detail. Unlike at the moment the UK government could negotiate as a sovereign country as most already take for granted.
 
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