Off Topic UK / EU Future
- Thread starter Leo
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
- Status
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
So clearly the 48+% who voted Remain are not represented in Parliament then? ~ Parliament is not fit for purpose then??
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
Get your tambourin back out and calm down, you are meant to be polite.
i have better things to do...... leave you to your nasty poison.....
I didn't think your insults would flow that quickly, you have not set a good example for our new poster.
So far since the referendum result parliament has been fit for purpose because the vast majority of MPs have rightly respected the result. They voted to hand the decision over to the public so could hardly morally challenge the result if it went against their personal point of view.
What has this to do with my post?
Democracy only works when it provides good governance for the whole population over a whole range of issues, not one imprecise vote. Under normal circumstances this government would have called another election to try and win back a majority in Parliament, but with over 70% of the population saying that Brexit is not going to be good for the country they dare not risk it.
You are always unable to adjust what you say to what others say.
Do you not know that everyone accepts the result. We are not stupid - we know that Leave won.
However you do in fact cover the essential point everyone except you is making - your words - "The referendum was never designed to define Brexit." Exactly - so if we have a referendum to define brexit it is entirely democratic - it is not the "second" referendum" (it would as you know be the third on Europe).
It thwarts nothing - what it does is give us a chance to define brexit as you admit we do not know what it is.
Not sure how a Sunderland supporter found his way to a Hornet political site
- but welcome.Was David Davis not controlling negotiations? He was always a brexiter.
I agree it was not leave voters fault that the referendum was a simple in / out. But it was. What is needed is to understand which version of out the country want? Remainers want the one most like "in" - i.e. the Norway "out" Many brexiters though want something very different - why should we not ask the people who told us to leave the EU what it is they want?
In case you are unaware General elections take place every 5 years (max) so we always "get a re-run" after a while.
As a side note the latest poll on Sky showed that in a three way run off between "no deal"; the "government deal" and calling the whole thing off the result was a 60-40 vote to call the whole thing off.
Goods, services, capital and persons. The four freedoms.
It is quite clear that many would object to the people part, but seamless movement of goods, services and capital is what most people who want to leave spend their lives arguing that the EU should give them. Three quarters of these freedoms are fine to those who know what they are, so can you use the term 'we' when describing what 'you' want? Degrees of departure was never an option, yet many leavers want only 25% of it. It is no wonder that there will never be agreement on this even by those who say they want to leave.
It is quite clear that many would object to the people part, but seamless movement of goods, services and capital is what most people who want to leave spend their lives arguing that the EU should give them. Three quarters of these freedoms are fine to those who know what they are, so can you use the term 'we' when describing what 'you' want? Degrees of departure was never an option, yet many leavers want only 25% of it. It is no wonder that there will never be agreement on this even by those who say they want to leave.
By using the term 'we' I mean those that voted for Brexit. You are correct, we reject the concept of the four pillars due to the 'persons' part which means uncontrolled immigration. This is not acceptable. It is quite easy to set up a deal for mutual trade benefit without being part of the EU.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
How come the people you voted for cant do it then????
and before you riposte that 'the EC' are the problem. a mutual trade deal as you put it infers the two sides...
Clearly it is NOT 'quite easy'.
It could be quite easy with two willing partners, it is quite obvious to most, except many remoaners, that the EU are most interested in being as obstructive as possible.
The EU has set up many trade deals around the world with other nations without imposing the problematic 'four pillars' nonsense on them.
As usual you are showing that you are trying to compare apples with pears. The EU is an organisation that draws sovereign nations together to cooperate with each other, saving them huge sums of money by economy of scale and not repeating things that can be shared.
An example for you. The UK said that it would no longer be a part of the European Medicines Agency. That is your choice, so the HQ in London was moved away. This created a loss of income to the Treasury of a considerable sum, but that was your choice. It has been announced that AstraZenica are spending £40 million on setting up a new research centre in Sweden, not to develop new drugs, but to replicate the work being done in Cambridge. Who will in the end finish up paying for this £40 million? The NHS and the population will. How many more agencies will we withdraw from shooting ourselves in the foot?
So this is not about a trade deal at all, but about cooperation and getting value for money, something that seems to be beyond the wit of some.
Isn’t it all about direct and indirect cost confusion? Tories love this. It’s like the £350m every week going into the NHS! I’m afraid this EU thing essentially boils down to immigration. Which is funny really, given that we are all immigrants here really - it’s only a difference of when your family arrived!
And I understand that the opportunity to control our border, even being in the EU, against immigration was always there but never implemented by governments on both sides.
It is quite easy to list a few short term loses when the UK leaves the EU. As the UK has proved it is well capable of attracting companies to the UK and creating jobs, something many EU member countries seem unable to manage.
When it was a member of the EU! How many companies have stated their excitement about settling in Britain’s future as opposed to those actively seeking escape?
- Status