Off Topic UK / EU Future

[superhorns]

That’s another completely misleading and therefore disingenuous stat though.

As it completely ignores the British based businesses that supply goods or services to companies who then produce goods for export. So everything from component manufacturers to IT suppliers, to accountants, solicitors, cleaning contractors, through to the local butty van.

In addition the suggestion that a company that currently doesn’t export to Europe when there’s frictionless trade in place, will somehow magically post Brexit then export to far flung markets around the globe, is fanciful nonsense, backed up by literally nothing.

I'm not sure why you think trading has to stop? Shipping goods under WTO rules and using freight forwarders for the transactions is easy peasy. The processes are already in place.

 

[Tobes]

I'm not sure why you think trading has to stop? Shipping goods under WTO rules and using freight forwarders for the transactions is easy peasy. The processes are already in place.

No one has said it’ll stop though and certainly not me. The loss of the single market and customs union adds complexity and more importantly adds time to the complex supply chains that have evolved in the decades since we became entwined with the EU from a trade perspective. Removing them literally overnight (in the event of no deal) will cause mayhem, that’s indisputable.

 

[superhorns]

If we leave the EU without a deal, then we’ll also leave behind the 53 trade deals with non EU countries that we currently have via the EU.

Why would anyone with even the most modest business acumen, think for one minute that a country with a market of 60m could negotiate a better trade deal than a trading bloc that offers 550m potential consumers?

We’ll have to replicate all of those current deals before we can even claim to have achieved parity with our current ‘Worldwide’ position.

For the benefit of both sides the present agreements can simply be rolled over on day 1 to avoid any disruption in trading. Over time these bi-lateral agreements can be improved to suit both parties.

I understand the EU- Canada free trade deal is under threat as one member country, Italy, may not ratify it. That is the problem dealing with the EU, too many components to satisfy.

 

[superhorns]

No one has said it’ll stop though and certainly not me. The loss of the single market and customs union adds complexity and more importantly adds time to the complex supply chains that have evolved in the decades since we became entwined with the EU from a trade perspective. Removing them literally overnight (in the event of no deal) will cause mayhem, that’s indisputable.

I don't disagree that some major disruption is inevitable especially with the EU hell bent on teaching us a lesson. UK businesses are remarkably resilient and adaptable, this is what the EU are frightened of.

 

[Tobes]

For the benefit of both sides the present agreements can simply be rolled over on day 1 to avoid any disruption in trading. Over time these bi-lateral agreements can be improved to suit both parties.

I understand the EU- Canada free trade deal is under threat as one member country, Italy, may not ratify it. That is the problem dealing with the EU, too many components to satisfy.

No they can’t, that another lie.

As the quotas will have to be negotiated with us directly, and there’s no guarantee that all of those nations will want to replicate the terms of the EU deal with our much smaller market either.

 

[superhorns]

No they can’t, that another lie.

As the quotas will have to be negotiated with us directly, and there’s no guarantee that all of those nations will want to replicate the terms of the EU deal with our much smaller market either.

I see no benefit to either trading nations by causing any short term problems. I expect to see common sense prevail.

 

[Tobes]

I don't disagree that some major disruption is inevitable especially with the EU hell bent on teaching us a lesson. UK businesses are remarkably resilient and adaptable, this is what the EU are frightened of.

Why do you Leavers persist with the notion that the EU is somehow the Bogeyman, and use language like ‘frightened’ and ‘hell bent on teaching us a lesson’?

The disruption caused will be of our making as we’ll have chosen to waltz off if that doomsday scenario occurs. The logistical disaster will be due to a lack of infrastructure, systems and head count capable of dealing with the overnight change. Most U.K. manufacturing business is not British owned btw.

 

[superhorns]

Why do you Leavers persist with the notion that the EU is somehow the Bogeyman, and use language like ‘frightened’ and ‘hell bent on teaching us a lesson’?

The disruption caused will be of our making as we’ll have chosen to waltz off if that doomsday scenario occurs. The logistical disaster will be due to a lack of infrastructure, systems and head count capable of dealing with the overnight change. Most U.K. manufacturing business is not British owned btw.

Surely you cannot deny the EU's main ambition is to deter other member nations from pulling out of the EU. Membership is clearly not working for several of the Southern European nations, a successful Brexit would encourage them to do the sensible thing and leave.

 

[Tobes]

Surely you cannot deny the EU's main ambition is to deter other member nations from pulling out of the EU. Membership is clearly not working for several of the Southern European nations, a successful Brexit would encourage them to do the sensible thing and leave.

The EU set out their stall before the vote, and their stance has been consistent (and written down lol) throughout.

They won’t allow a member state to leave the Union and still enjoy all of the benefits of membership, this concept isn’t complicated. The union’s 4 pillars were always going to determine the outcome. They’ve never hidden this, you were told this before the vote. The EU will act in the best interests of its members and we’ve chosen to leave the club.

 

[superhorns]

That well known i

The EU set out their stall before the vote, and their stance has been consistent (and written down lol) throughout.

They won’t allow a member state to leave the Union and still enjoy all of the benefits of membership, this concept isn’t complicated. The union’s 4 pillars were always going to determine the outcome. They’ve never hidden this, you were told this before the vote. The EU will act in the best interests of its members and we’ve chosen to leave the club.

The EU has free trade deals with other countries in which the 4 pillars are not activated, why should the UK be treated differently just because we are neighbours?

 

[Tobes]

The EU has free trade deals with other countries in which the 4 pillars are not activated, why should the UK be treated differently just because we are neighbours?

The single market and an FTA aren’t the same thing, you’ve also ignored the customs union, in addition to ignoring that membership is that of a bloc, and the bloc carries with it an economy of scale when negotiating trade deals.

That’s a fatuous piece of whataboutery I’m afraid.

 

[superhorns]

The single market and an FTA aren’t the same thing, you’ve also ignored the customs union, in addition to ignoring that membership is that of a bloc, and the bloc carries with it an economy of scale when negotiating trade deals.

That’s a fatuous piece of whataboutery I’m afraid.

I am talking about FTA deals the EU does with countries outside of the customs union where the EU's so called 4 pillars are ignored.

 

[colognehornet]

That well known i


The EU has free trade deals with other countries in which the 4 pillars are not activated, why should the UK be treated differently just because we are neighbours?

If you do not allow freedom of movement then you will not enjoy completely free movement of goods, capital or services - it is as simple as that. These 4 are anchored together. It is abundantly clear that you cannot leave a club and then continue to enjoy all the benefits of membership without any obligations - there is no other walk of life where such a thing would be possible. You can call this 'punishment' if you really believe in conspiracy theories I call it common sense. 'Membership' means certain privileges which are lost upon leaving - to see this in any other way is unfair on the 27 remaining members. When you hanker after trade deals with the EU. you are also forgetting that trade will go down (with or without a deal) quite simply because if the same product or service is available from another EU. state then they will have the advantage.

 

[Tobes]

I am talking about FTA deals the EU does with countries outside of the customs union where the EU's so called 4 pillars are ignored.

I know, and I explained why it was a fatuous piece of whataboutery

 

[colognehornet]

Do you have the necessary business experience to qualify that negative assessment?

I have only just noticed this. I think it fair to assume that other posters do have a whole range of experiences to call upon when giving opinions. Some of us are forthcoming on here as regards their 'qualifications' others are not - some of us do not need to boast about our achievements on here, or create some kind of online personae in order to make a point. You would do well to presume that other posters on here are just as qualified as you yourself are - to do otherwise is an attempt to put people down, and that is not acceptable.

 

[superhorns]

I have only just noticed this. I think it fair to assume that other posters do have a whole range of experiences to call upon when giving opinions. Some of us are forthcoming on here as regards their 'qualifications' others are not - some of us do not need to boast about our achievements on here, or create some kind of online personae in order to make a point. You would do well to presume that other posters on here are just as qualified as you yourself are - to do otherwise is an attempt to put people down, and that is not acceptable.

So I take it you have no business experience.

 

[superhorns]

[QUOTE="colognehornet, post: 11960254, member: 1012323"]If you do not allow freedom of movement then you will not enjoy completely free movement of goods, capital or services - it is as simple as that. These 4 are anchored together. It is abundantly clear that you cannot leave a club and then continue to enjoy all the benefits of membership without any obligations - there is no other walk of life where such a thing would be possible. You can call this 'punishment' if you really believe in conspiracy theories I call it common sense. 'Membership' means certain privileges which are lost upon leaving - to see this in any other way is unfair on the 27 remaining members. When you hanker after trade deals with the EU. you are also forgetting that trade will go down (with or without a deal) quite simply because if the same product or service is available from another EU. state then they will have the advantage.[/QUOTE]

There is no reason why this must be the case as it is not applied to other EU FTAs. The EU are clearly scared of the UK's potential once freed from the straightjacket of Brussels control.

 

[superhorns]

I know, and I explained why it was a fatuous piece of whataboutery

You obviously lack understanding.

 

[colognehornet]

So I take it you have no business experience.

You have absolutely no knowledge of any experience which I may, or may not, have SH. Unlike yourself I do not feel the need to broadcast my achievements on social media where they cannot be checked up on. Ideas expressed on here should be judged on their own merits.

 

[superhorns]

You have absolutely no knowledge of any experience which I may, or may not, have SH. Unlike yourself I do not feel the need to broadcast my achievements on social media where they cannot be checked up on. Ideas expressed on here should be judged on their own merits.

It is actually quite handy to have practical knowledge and experience of the subject being discussed. Any fool can come up with a guess.