Off Topic UK / EU Future

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Remove the PM and you will replace her with Corbyn. I would prefer that to crashing out with no deal
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I have just got back from my lunch, and there was someone joining us who I had never met before. It seems that he is a consultant to companies and their logistic needs, including companies in the UK within the auto industry. As he pointed out Slovakia is building a production plant for Jaguar Land Rover twice the size that is needed for current production plans. Spain is doing likewise for the Nissan production plant. JLR could move their entire production out of the UK within four months. Nissan is set up to be moved within three months. It has finally dawned on the UK government that somehow they have to protect that industry, and there are others, that rely on just in time supply chains. Looking at the current proposals they are an attempt to guard against large companies that employ thousands directly, and many more indirectly leaving the country while nothing is clear. It looks to him that reality is kicking in, and the leave campaign, based on wishful thinking is being slowly ditched. Just how far the wild men of the right are prepared to push things remains to be seen, and they will have to reflect on if they wish to remove the PM and probably see her reelected.
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Project fear no 3 or is it 4?
 
The Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) has rubbished May's approach to a 'common rule book, they state it would make the UK a 'rule-taker'. They suggest the alternative, favoured by David Davis of a 'mutual recognition' system.

Interesting the cabinet only voted this through on a 3-1 majority, plenty of ministers to resign yet.
 
It amazes me that people who supported the Tory party against all common sense, now see that as their dream fails, they turn on the PM and her government. Many who are let us remember part of a small minority within the party, now do not know if they should try and bring the PM down, hope that the Labour party will do it for them, or just keep complaining. The more comments you read the more you realise that the support for the the government is fading fast. Two polls issued today suggest that if there were another GE Labour would be the largest party without a majority. We must also reflect on the fact that today a third option has been added to the menu. Deal, no Deal or no Brexit.
 
superhorns said:
The Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) has rubbished May's approach to a 'common rule book, they state it would make the UK a 'rule-taker'. They suggest the alternative, favoured by David Davis of a 'mutual recognition' system.

Interesting the cabinet only voted this through on a 3-1 majority, plenty of ministers to resign yet.
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Third rate, right wing, "think tank". Misleading name to give it an academic gravitas that it doesn't possess.
Might as well be the Institute of Krap Economic Affairs... IKEA for short...
 
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superhorns said:
The Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) has rubbished May's approach to a 'common rule book, they state it would make the UK a 'rule-taker'. They suggest the alternative, favoured by David Davis of a 'mutual recognition' system.

Interesting the cabinet only voted this through on a 3-1 majority, plenty of ministers to resign yet.
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Oh the IEA, yet another right wing ‘think tank’ backed by dubious sources and wedged full of disaster capitalists.

That view is meaningless semantics btw.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
It amazes me that people who supported the Tory party against all common sense, now see that as their dream fails, they turn on the PM and her government. Many who are let us remember part of a small minority within the party, now do not know if they should try and bring the PM down, hope that the Labour party will do it for them, or just keep complaining. The more comments you read the more you realise that the support for the the government is fading fast. Two polls issued today suggest that if there were another GE Labour would be the largest party without a majority. We must also reflect on the fact that today a third option has been added to the menu. Deal, no Deal or no Brexit.
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The only reason the Tory support is down is May's lousy call for appeasement and not to negotiate with gusto. If she is not up to the job then move over. Her proposal will be rejected by the EU, Labour Party and most of the Tories. It is a non runner. Tory support will bounce back immediately once the government has a leader who can read the mood of the country.
 
One day SH you will wake up and realise that your dream was always impossible.
All brexiters have done is to destroy a perfectly good and sensible participation we had in a"club" that was far from perfect. We have lost something good in order to get an impossible alternative. If there really were a sensible no deal that would have made us even remotely in a similar economic position to where we were I would have considered it - as I am no lover of EU institutions. Instead we have just made an almighty mess and there is no turning back.
Surely you can see that brexit was at best a "hope". THe real answer would have been to try to change the EU internally.
 
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superhorns said:
The only reason the Tory support is down is May's lousy call for appeasement and not to negotiate with gusto. If she is not up to the job then move over. Her proposal will be rejected by the EU, Labour Party and most of the Tories. It is a non runner. Tory support will bounce back immediately once the government has a leader who can read the mood of the country.
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So sad that anyone believes that it would be that simple. Months ago I was saying that the red lines were turning pink. Then May was the best thing since sliced bread, strong and stable. Now the same person wants her out and replaced with someone different. Let us just consider the effect of that happening. Everything that has been agreed so far would be have to be shelved, and a new start made. Either the whole thing would have to be put on hold, or the EU would leave the UK to stumble out with none of the essentials agreed
 
Leo said:
One day SH you will wake up and realise that your dream was always impossible.
All brexiters have done is to destroy a perfectly good and sensible participation we had in a"club" that was far from perfect. We have lost something good in order to get an impossible alternative. If there really were a sensible no deal that would have made us even remotely in a similar economic position to where we were I would have considered it - as I am no lover of EU institutions. Instead we have just made an almighty mess and there is no turning back.
Surely you can see that brexit was at best a "hope". THe real answer would have been to try to change the EU internally.
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We saw the response to Cameron for a reasonable tweak to mass immigration, it fell on deaf ears. There was no prospect of changing the juggernaut dominated by Germany. There will be a massive shake up after Brexit when Trump stops the unfair tariff trading to the US. The UK will be exempted from his justified aggression towards the EU.
 
This is what happens when a country that has no history of referenda chooses to "let the people decide". The people are inept and should leave it to professional poiticians. Referenda are rubbish.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
So sad that anyone believes that it would be that simple. Months ago I was saying that the red lines were turning pink. Then May was the best thing since sliced bread, strong and stable. Now the same person wants her out and replaced with someone different. Let us just consider the effect of that happening. Everything that has been agreed so far would be have to be shelved, and a new start made. Either the whole thing would have to be put on hold, or the EU would leave the UK to stumble out with none of the essentials agreed
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You seem to have very little knowledge of what has gone on. Several months ago May was sticking to her red lines with David Davis trying to negotiate a fair trade deal with the EU. Behind his back May has colluded with civil servants to basically agree to every demand by the EU. Now the plot has been exposed naturally the nation has reacted with alarm at the meek way she has surrendered her previous red lines. Although she is in a very difficult position she will find in the coming week that her subterfuge will not be tolerated in a democracy. Her plan is not acceptable to almost everybody for various reasons. The chance of leaving without deal has increased dramatically.
 
superhorns said:
We saw the response to Cameron for a reasonable tweak to mass immigration, it fell on deaf ears. There was no prospect of changing the juggernaut dominated by Germany. There will be a massive shake up after Brexit when Trump stops the unfair tariff trading to the US. The UK will be exempted from his justified aggression towards the EU.
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I admire your optimism - if it really were that. Instead I think you just clutch at the latest straw. In a union of 28 nations you do not go and demand to get your way "or else". You persuade people, you build alliances, you point out the good and bad of your and other's policies. It was never going to be Cameron returning with peace in our time. Over timethe EU can and will change. Throwing your toys out of the pram and doing something that will irrevocably damage your own country because you do not get your own way is childish.
Trump has another four years maximum before he is the outgoing President and so emasculated. Normal service will then be resumed. f you think the UK will get a deal that is really good for the UK from a President who thinks you can sue the EU and whose trade policy is USA first then I am afraid you are deluded.
 
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Leo said:
This is what happens when a country that has no history of referenda chooses to "let the people decide". The people are inept and should leave it to professional poiticians. Referenda are rubbish.
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We actually left it to the politicians. They decided to put the decision to a referendum. If it was good enough for the original decision it was good enough two years ago.
 
superhorns said:
You seem to have very little knowledge of what has gone on. Several months ago May was sticking to her red lines with David Davis trying to negotiate a fair trade deal with the EU. Behind his back May has colluded with civil servants to basically agree to every demand by the EU. Now the plot has been exposed naturally the nation has reacted with alarm at the meek way she has surrendered her previous red lines. Although she is in a very difficult position she will find in the coming week that her subterfuge will not be tolerated in a democracy. Her plan is not acceptable to almost everybody for various reasons. The chance of leaving without deal has increased dramatically.
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Your arguments are odd. You say here that May has agreed every demand the Eu wants but elsewhere have said the EU will reject her deal. Which is it?
TM has realised that a Norway style solution is best for the UK
 
Leo said:
I admire your optimism - if it really were that. Instead I think you just clutch at the latest straw. In a union of 28 nations you do not go and demand to get your way "or else". You persuade people, you build alliances, you point out the good and bad of your and other's policies. It was never going to be Cameron returning with peace in our time. Over timethe EU can and will change. Throwing your toys out of the pram and doing something that will irrevocably damage your own country because you do not get your own way is childish.
Trump has another four years maximum before he is the outgoing President and so emasculated. Normal service will then be resumed. f you think the UK will get a deal that is really good for the UK from a President who thinks you can sue the EU and whose trade policy is USA first then I am afraid you are deluded.
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You should advise the new Italian and Visegrad countries who are currently flexing their muscles with aggression against Brussels. There is very little harmony inside the EU at the moment. Trump has ample time to readdress trading with the EU. His ideas on fair trade will be a vote winner in the US, do not expect a change. Apparently there is a legal possibility of successfully suing the EU, not such a crazy idea.
Trump will give the UK good deal, it is you that is deluded I'm afraid, probably read too much negativity on this thread.
 
Leo said:
Your arguments are odd. You say here that May has agreed every demand the Eu wants but elsewhere have said the EU will reject her deal. Which is it?
TM has realised that a Norway style solution is best for the UK
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The EU will not be satisfied until May's face is rubbed in the dirt a la Cameron. TM might like her deal, not many others are convinced.
 
Having read through the comments today, I guess that SH will not be voting for the Tories in future as he believes the PM and the majority of her cabinet are dodgy useless operators that you wouldn't buy a second hand car from. Maybe when the extremists break away and join up with UKIP he will find himself a political home as there doesn't seem to be anywhere else for him to go to.
 
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